Shorts under skirts for girls - a new thing?

[Biggrizzlybear]

A discussion on a school parents chat has brought up something I'd not thought about. Apparently a number of parents of September reception starters (girls) are looking for shorts to go under their daughter's school dresses "to make sure they're decent." I don't remember this happening when I was at school. Is that not what pants are for? I don't know what to think about it. On the one hand, I don't want my daughter to look indecent in comparison to everybody else. But I don't want to teach her that how she looks and dresses is indecent when she's fully dressed. If her dress is long enough, surely she'll be decent. I doubt she'll spend more than a minute or two a day with her dress over her head!

Do little girls wear these nowadays? Am I being silly or neglectful in some way?

The flimsy knickers thing is obviously the main problem. I have just bough multipacks in a hurry in the past and then be disappointed at how flimsy they are. I do try and look out for more sturdy knickers now but they are definitely harder to source in the sort of colors she expects. And it isnt exactly easy to shop around at the moment.

I worked in a primary school looking after key stage 1 children last year and I'd say only 2 or 3 girls wore shorts under their dresses. It's not that I was deliberately looking but in the playground a lot of the girls would flip upside down on the bars, do hand stands against the wall etc. You ended up seeing a lot of knickers! I have to say all these knickers did a good job of covering the girls. I never saw anything I shouldn't. The short wearers were definitely a small minority.

This is a perennial thread on Mumsnet

And I used to think how sad.

But now, as a mature female, I find wearing cycling shorts under dresses in the last few days absolutely liberating formbei g able to cycle in clothes I wouldn’t otherwise be able to

And if it liberate girls from teasing and enables them to tumble around, I don’t really see the problem

My kids do those things, too, Jelly, but my (then) 4 year old DD understood the talk they had as being pants specific, like I said... 4! And of course I talked to her - who wouldn't have?? Not that it mattered for us as she'd been wearing shorts under skirts already, as had half the class - going down the slide in pants when your skirt flies behind you is not pleasant, or wasn't when I did it way back when (which is actually when me and my Sis started wearing shorts under skirts!)

Its nothing to do with body shaming for me/mine, its practical whilst still getting to wear the skirt of choice to be like the other girls (as for my DD2, though I'll stress again she wants to wear shorts, too, and most of the girls she sees also wear them!)

DD1 has just reminded me that shorts became a fashion item by year 2 in their school, with them all aiming for the brightest colours or patterns to offset their very boring uniform. I hadn't realised they were being used for this minor act of rebellion! DD1 had already started wearing boys shorts by then though. And boys school shoes, which are much better for playing, too.

I think people and society in general just loves making up issues for girls , even little girls. Then they wonder why they grow up worrying about so many things, being less active, have body and self esteem issues.

Guess what? Some girls will be so self conscious over this stupid fuss that they stop cartwheeling altogether. No more running, or being upside down or playing football. They'll just sit there looking pretty and lady like to appease the grownups around them.

Grownups that are incapable apparently of buying proper knickers or dresses, grownups that faint at the sight of knickers, grownups that are imagining vulvas everywhere.

4 year olds are not responsible for your hang ups and issues.

When I was in school we always wore like cycling type shorts under skirts, for no reason other than comfort sometimes and if it was windy or we were having to sit on the floor you never worried about your pants being on display.

Hmm, I'm thinking now, me and my sis would likely have been on a metal slide... I bet the plastic ones today don't burn your arse like those bastards did!

@StripeyBananas

They don't need to, but that seam isn't very comfy.

Why can't little girls cover up if they want to?

Of course they can cover up, that's what pants are for.

But now, as a mature female, I find wearing cycling shorts under dresses in the last few days absolutely liberating formbei g able to cycle in clothes I wouldn’t otherwise be able to

And as a personal choice that's totally fine. Now imagine a policeman stopped you in the street and said you can't cycle unless you wore shorts. It's not the law, might not be what you want but he decided your modesty must be protected whether you want to or not in a manner considered acceptable by him.

That's what my daughter was told. "If you want to do cartwheels you must wear shorts. Tell mummy to buy you some shorts" and "you can't do cartwheels if you're not wearing shorts".

She was 6 the first time ffs! Everyone saw her pants anyways on PE days.

@AllForAnEasyLife

Boden knickers are brilliant! They cover everything even when cross legged. They are a stupid price though.

At dd school (primary) you are not allowed to do handstands, cartwheels etc if you have no shorts in under a dress.

Knickers are not suppose to be seen.

That's ridiculous, it's putting the responsibility on girls to dress appropriately' to stop males seeing their pants. The school/parents should be teaching boys not to look.

This has come up on MN (although never ever in my RL) for years.

I don't understand why shorts are necessary or desirable.. Why does a little girl need to be "modest"? The little girl certainly doesn't care. The little boys don't give a toss. Who is placing these ideas of modesty into their worlds? Covering up knickers is just ridiculous.

My 8 year old daughter still wears dresses, and climbs and swings with the rest of the children - she doesn't distinguish between boys and girls. None of my other 3 daughters have given a toss either. Neither of my sons has ever raised the subject of girls knickers, vulvas or anything else with me. They have shown no interest whatsover.

In years 5 or 6 it starts becoming an issue as girls start to reach puberty. Then they start naturally distancing themselves and covering themselves up (at the same time as wearing skimpier, tighter clothes)

In all my years (considerable) parenting, at several different schools, none of the teachers, heads or other parents have ever raised this as a topic.

It makes me so cross this sexualisation of little girls.

Of course girls can do cartwheels and handstands without shorts under their dresses - what rubbish. When did that ‘rule’ come in?

I’m 24 and I definitely did this between about year 5-8, not before that though.. it is handy to be covered with shorts etc if your DD is likely to be doing lots of cartwheels or hand stands. I hope she settles into reception well! Xx

When did that ‘rule’ come in?
when girl’s pants became tiny. buy pants that cover everything and fit, and you are fine.

H&M do shorts style knickers from age 1.5 and above I think.
We buy these for the girls to wear under dresses.

Not new and very useful if you like doing tricks on the monkey bars or gymnastic out on the playing field.

When I taught itty-bitties, I would have liked to suggest that for some of our young ladies, because underwear was either too big, stretched out - or in one case - non-existent!

when girl’s pants became tiny. buy pants that cover everything and fit, and you are fine.

DD wore/wears boxer shorts type knickers. She was still told to wear shorts.

These were considered unacceptable. So the people insisting that it's about loose,flimsy, tiny whatever knickers are deluding themselves

Not a new thing. My oldest are 14 now and I always used to put shorts under their skirts when they were little and they wear skirts now.
Underwear is private. The NSPCC teach that.

@PrincessConsueIaBananaHammock that is ridiculous. These cover everything so should be fine. The ones I have an issue with are the tiny ones - often characters ones that don’t fit properly and cover close to nothing (I wouldn’t want a boy running around with his bits on show either)

When i was at school we had uniform knickers that were almost felt-like with wide double gussets, you could do the sideways splits in them and still have fabric to spare. Now the knickers available for me to buy for my DD are ridiculous skimpy things which i dont like at all (And neither does she as they slip everywhere and get stuck.) She wears skorts or dresses with bike shorts underneath because she is more comfortable in them. They protect the backs of her thighs from hot slides, scratchy rocks and logs and sticking to car seats after a sweaty drive.

The big problem that I see is why do clothing manufacturers make such inadequate underwear for girls (Boden excepting - thank you for making such comfortable knickers that fit properly). Also girls shorts are a disgrace, why are they so short and why dont they have proper pockets. All the boys shorts are long with lots of deep pockets. Girls want to scramble around and pickup bits of rock and stick to bring home too. I hunted for ages to find some for DD and managed to eventually on a site called Girls Will Be (USA). She loves them. Having some short shorts is fine, but long shorts are also needed for girls

We used to wear black cycling shirts under our school skirts in comp twenty odd years ago.

I worked as an MSA for a while at my dcs school. The TA who was in charge at lunchtimes always told the girls they couldn't do handstands or cartwheels if they didn't wear shorts under their dresses.

Why don't they have school shorts in the girl's section?
It doesn't really matter because my dd wears them anyway, she loves them much better than the summer dresses but it's still annoying.

She wears boy school trousers as well because she prefers them.
Why do they think girls don't need pockets?

Not a troll. Report if you like. Regular name changer but been here a few years.

And you're right, schools aren't open right now. But the new reception parents for September have started chatting about things. This came up. It was something I hadn't heard of, so I thought I'd ask, having only had a boy school child before, and he doesn't wear skirts. Same as I'd ask something about cricket, football, cooking a soufflé and Game of Thrones, as these are also things I know little about.

Thanks for the sensible replies. I shall keep in mind suggestions of things that can be bought, try and buy more substantial pants, and keep an eye on her dress length. Being quite a tall but slim girl, this may cause more knicker flashing than cartwheels and climbing things, neither of which she's shown any interest in thus far.

It wasn’t a thing when I was little that I can remember, but we didn’t have a uniform at primary school so I didn’t often wear dresses and skirts.

I didn’t see it as a problem but my daughter came home (now year one) asking for “safety shorts” for under her dress as all the other girls wore them. I bought a pack of 3 from ebay cheap. Next also sell white cycling shorts if that’s any help.

She said it was because she like to do gymnastics and she doesn’t like showing her knickers