Could they get furloughed workers to help in schools?

[BlackWhitePurple]

We keep hearing that one problem with reopening schools is that there aren't enough staff to cover split classes.

Would it be feasible to ask now for some furloughed workers to help out in September? I'm thinking the likes of hairdressers, sports coaches etc who are unlikely to be back to work any time soon. If the government are still going to be paying furloughed wages (which presumably they'll have to, if the industries can't open), they could offer to pay 80% instead of 60% or whatever it is, do background checks now, and put some training in place to allow them to at least supervise groups of primary-school children. Also offer to pay SAHP the same amount if they help.

I'm thinking the school could then move, say, the older age groups (from primary) into, say, a village/scout/church/community hall, and spread the younger classes out over the remaining classes and assembly hall.

The teacher could then do the actual teaching, and then leave the class with the TA to complete work, and then go into the other classroom to teach there. An extra person in each class would help with supervision.

It's not ideal, obviously, but it would allow all pupils (in primary at least) back to school with social distancing in place. It would need money to be spent (to boost the furloughed workers' pay, add some SAHPs, hire halls etc), but they've already found billions, and it wouldn't be prohibitively expensive in comparison (plus it would allow taxpayers to return to work).

Obviously it wouldn't work for every school, but it would be a start for some.

It's not likely to go on forever (if everyone goes back to work then we either go back to normal, or Corona spikes again and we go back to lockdown).

Anyone have any other ideas for how things could work?

Of course TeaStory (I am SLT) but calling for additional money can't be the only solution, there must be better ways.

It's the instant dismissal of each and every new suggestion that distresseds me. Education already gets c.£100bn, 6% of GDP, how much do you think would be reasonable? Why do more teachers not understand that one way to have "enough" money in schools is to find better more efficient ways to deliver?

Have to agree that the ‘that wouldn’t work’ response to every suggestion is depressing. Of course this version of schooling wouldn’t be anywhere as good as the usual, but it’s better surely than women predominantly, losing their jobs and children losing out on all education and socialising. I’m a retired teacher and would be happy to do a couple of days in our local primary.the village has two community spaces and a huge field within 100 yds of the school so surely the younger children could use these for at least some form of education. we always had local retired people listening to readers and many a mum or student helping out, mostly pretty good with guidance.i think a real issue would be speeding up security checks....

I’m a hairdresser and i will be back at work from july 4th :) hope none of you on this thread assuming we’re all incompetent ditzy thickos are one of the names on my massive long list of people I need to ring who are clamouring for an appointment with me :)

*how can it be a bad thing for people like OP to throw a few ideas out??

As I said previously on here, its not necessary.

There are literally 1000s of supply teachers who could be brought in; trained, qualified professionals who know the job and could actually teach. Schools can't afford them though and the government won't (or, at least, havent offered to, pay for them). That would be the sensible solution to staffing problems. Except that schools don't know and, therefore, can't trust them to be following the guidelines outside of school etc. which is why many are opting not to use them.

The risk of bringing in furloughed hairdressers etc, who haven't demonstrated any of the professional standards teachers or TAs have to meet would mean that HTs would just refuse outright because its their heads that would roll if someone said or did something in front of the children that was inappropriate, for example, and a parent complained. It's just too much of a risk. Even on school trips, where we only take dbs checked parents, we don't ever leave them alone with children if we can help it because it's just not worth the risk.

There are plenty of things that it would be inappropriate for children to be exposed to that wouldn't be picked up by a dbs check because they arent illegal but are counter to safeguarding in schools.

So they'd all have to undergo safeguarding training too and read, understand and follow all school policies and the school would have to know and trust them.

It's just huge. And a huge risk.

Because, unfortunately, things cost money.

For example, no-one has answered my earlier question of how the use of these "community spaces" would be paid for and by whom.

How might laptops, IT infrastructure, secure software platforms be paid for, if "new ways" are sought?

As someone said upthread, the suggestions on here are the equivalent of telling someone with a cancelled flight to flap their arms up and down. There are some insurmountable obstacles, such as a lack of physical spaces to bring pupils to. It reminds me of when my house sale fell through and we almost lost our dream house (the only one we found that would work for me and my work and disabilities) - people suggested I just go ahead and buy the new house and rent out the old one. Was I being "dismissive" to point out that would leave us with a £100k shortfall?

I don't know what percentage of GDP schools should get (and hey, look, I'm admitting I don't know something rather than saying I know the details of economics because I have a bank account!), but clearly it is more. Either that, or the government needs to stop expecting schools to do as much as they do and let them focus purely on education.

Selfishly, I'm bloody glad I don't teach any more, even though I teach a shortage subject it's almost impossible to recruit for.

MadameButterface

I don't think you're an incompetent, ditzy thicko at all but, believe me, you wouldnt want me cutting/dying your hair any more than I'd want you teaching my class!

@MadameButterface no-one thinks you are a ditzy thicko, but teaching and behaviour management are skills that I would not expect someone untrained and inexperienced to have. Just as I wouldn't have the first clue how to do a layered haircut, or how to mix up dye, or even what styles work on different textures and face shapes (seriously, I just turn up at my hairdresser and tell him to do something nice, he's ace because he knows me and my hair so well) - I'm not a ditzy thicko, I just don't have the training, knowledge and experience you do.

A lot of the community spaces would be offered free, short term, to solve a national crisis while they otherwise stand empty, if anyone asked.

And some of the suggestions I've read on MN really do show that most people don't have a clue what teaching actually involves.

A lot of the community spaces would be offered free, short term, to solve a national crisis while they otherwise stand empty, if anyone asked.

They might... unless they were also business at risk of closure due to lack of income at the moment and then they might be wondering why they have to provide facilities and pay for utilities and cleaners without receiving any remuneration for it.

Of course, some wouldn't Whaddyathinkofthis but why is that a reason to just dismiss the entire notion?

I reckon there's a whole load of Ofsted inspectors out there who could do this. After all, they've had a quiet few months.

They could show us teachers how it's done 😁

A lot of them are teachers and yes, good idea, they could work in schools for a while, it could well be an excellent move for everyone.

WowLucky

Some primary schools that are already linked to secondary schools are doing just that.

But, when it comes to external buildings, safeguarding will, again, be a major factor.

If, say, 20 classrooms are required and only 3 extra spaces are available, it might help some of the children in one school. Who decides which school gets it? How are other people on site managed? Where are the toilets in relation to the available rooms? What about school level H&S checks? The risk assessments would be huge. Is anyone going to want to take responsibility for the risk in an off site building?

20 years ago, these suggestions would probably have been put into place but current safeguarding requirements are such that those alone make many of the suggestions untenable.

I reckon there's a whole load of Ofsted inspectors out there who could do this. After all, they've had a quiet few months.

Excellent idea!

They don't have to make it untenable it means there are some issues that need to be resolved in a time of national crisis. Maybe some of the rules need to be relaxed short term, safeguarding isn't adequate atm, would the new world be better or worse?

And are the parents of those children who are affected by reduced safeguarding going to think it's ok?

Or the children?

You're right, it is inadequate at the moment but, at some point, this pandemic is going to be over and no school/HT/Chair of Governors is going to want to be the one answering questions or being featured in a serious case review when something goes wrong.

All the 'there are lessons to be learned' in the world won't cut it then. People have short memories and, after the fact, people will ask why it was allowed to happen.

And, once again, it isnt the schools who have written the guidelines, it's the government. Schools have very little autonomy so it isn't teachers per se who are saying no to these things, it is teachers who are saying that, in light of what we do and the expectations currently, these suggestions won't work.

This would need to be a governmental decision that also agreed to greater risk. And no one is going to want to do that.

In terms of who pays for it - it needs to be the government. They found billions for the furlough scheme. Opening schools allows the economy to get moving. It protects children who are vulnerable, it protects everyone's mental health. It's worth every penny, but it needs to happen centrally.

In terms of DBS checks, they could look at ways to speed it up. Volunteers could easily do safeguarding training (I've done it for Brownies; it took a few hours) and steps could be taken to ensure they're not left alone with kids.

I’m furloughed, but I can assure you that you that you really, really do not want me anywhere near your precious children. Child-friendly, I am not....

Of course, there would have to be specific temporary changes to the rules around safeguarding, with an acceptance that it's not perfect but better than what we have (which, let's face it is what every safeguarding measure is anyway). Individual schools couldn't go out on a limb but again, that's not a reason to dismiss it out of hand.

Any of this needs to come from government with the support of the schools and workforce to implement it, it can't, I agree, be done by schools taking it upon themselves.

In terms of who pays for it - it needs to be the government. They found billions for the furlough scheme. Opening schools allows the economy to get moving. It protects children who are vulnerable, it protects everyone's mental health. It's worth every penny, but it needs to happen centrally.

I agree.So have you suggested this to them? Because posting on MN isn't going to achieve it.

And it still doesn't alter the fact that, if the money was made available, this whole discussion would be a poor point because of the 1000s of, currently out of work, supply teachers.

In terms of DBS checks, they could look at ways to speed it up. Volunteers could easily do safeguarding training

This is an awfully big commitment you're expecting from 'volunteers'.

You've done it for Brownies, I've done it for various charities I've worked with (as its compulsory even though I do it through school annually) but this is an awfully large undertaking you're expecting people to offer to do voluntarily.

steps could be taken to ensure they're not left alone with kids

What steps would you suggest?

Because it's easy to say, it's less easy to do.

If there were enough school staff available to supervise, then these volunteers wouldn't be necessary in the first place.

Besides, the initial suggestion was to have a teacher flit from class to class delivering teaching and the hairdressers etc would supervise the work being done. How would this work if the classes are split across various venues within a mile or so radius of the school?

I guarantee my HR manager could get all the DBS checks, for more volunteers than we could possibly need done in a couple of days. Whether DBS could cope is another thing, however they are not necessarily needed before staff or volunteers start work, so don't need to be a barrier, provided other checks and risk assessments are done.

Moot point, not poor.

Dbs checks aren't needed to start working with children? That's never been my ec9

Experience