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Omg the scenes from the London protests

681 replies

SistemaAddict · 06/06/2020 18:31

I'm just watching the news and am finding it so frightening to see the crowds, the police, the tension, the horse bolting.
I understand the desire to protest but how is this the right way to do things? I know there will be thousands of peaceful protesters among the ones causing trouble.
I'm concerned about the covid risk to everyone there especially as BAME are more at risk of the virus.

I hate confrontation and get very anxious so wanted to chat to others about this. Yes, I could switch off but I think it's important to watch and learn and understand what and why is happening.

OP posts:
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PickAChew · 07/06/2020 00:26

Horses are excellent for crowd control. DH and I went for a meal on Blackett Street in Newcastle, a day or so after Farage was milkshaked, there. There were a few of the often seen mounted police, there. They were pretty much fussed over by passers by, the whole time. The general public loves horses and feels protected, rather than intimidated, by their presence.

Truthpact · 07/06/2020 00:27

@Twillow

You focused on one part of what I said. Read the below:

Protest about it, great, get better treatment for other races. Do it peacefully, do not use violence. Its so stupid.

I also said that. I'm fine with the protests, go for it. I do not like the use of violence in a protest. Read everything I said next time.

And people will focus on the violence, they already are. If people are dumb enough to focus on a colour of a person and be nasty to them because of it, they are dumb enough to think that all protestors are violent.

PickAChew · 07/06/2020 00:28

No racism in semi rural towns. Said no one, ever.

Twillow · 07/06/2020 00:29

Cummings has made a mockery of the rules, because although it's clearer than the signposts to Barnard castle Specsavers that he wasn't following the guidance the government have refused to censure his actions. The general feeling is now one of 'I'll do what I think best' rather than 'I'll follow the government guidance to the letter'.
I know colleagues who are having secret drinky meet-ups, people having their non-live in partners over , as well as all those who decided to fight it on the beaches - all since Cummings. A catalyst igniting all the other failures that have come to light.

BeijingBikini · 07/06/2020 00:32

People have a right to protest.

No-one said this around the time of the anti-lockdown protests in Hyde Park, which actually were socially distanced and peaceful. People on here said they needed to be shot, tear gassed, water cannoned, hope they got Covid and no ventilator, etc.

Yet now it's fine? I totally support the right to protest but don't appreciate how half the people here agree with democracy for some causes but not others. You either support the right to protest or you don't - if you only support it for the causes you deem "worthy" then that is a slippery slope into fascism.

happinessischocolate · 07/06/2020 00:34

and because thats a two year period which given the numbers is far too small too say it's '30%' - it has no statistical validity.

BS. 6 deaths is more than 30% (or a 3rd) of 17 deaths, how can that not be valid

Did you miss the part where they explain percentages

No I didn't, did you notice though that they changed it from percentage of population to percentage of people arrested?

Twillow · 07/06/2020 00:42

Ok Truthpact , one last shot at common sense before beddy byes.

A minority of horrible people who enjoy promoting violence will try to attach themselves to and exploit ANY march. I abhor violence as do you. What would you do about it, though. You wouldn't want to ban protests, I presume?

I challenge your wording a little, though, as what the protesters are after is EQUAL TREATMENT rather than 'better treatment for other races'. I hope I don't sound pedantic, but white privilege is a bit like standing at the finish line saying "you can do this" rather than standing at the starting line saying "we can do this".

SomethingOnce · 07/06/2020 00:44

The government must be loving this. It’s knocked the eye-watering incompetence right out of the news.

Donkeytail · 07/06/2020 00:49

No I didn't, did you notice though that they changed it from percentage of population to percentage of people arrested?

Well it hardly makes sense to do it any other way does it? If you haven't been arrested you can't die in police custody Confused

DeeCeeCherry · 07/06/2020 01:01

Omg the scenes from the London protests

OMG the scenes of George Floyd with a psycho cop kneeling on his neck, asphyxiating him slowly and deliberately. Crushing his windpipe.

how is this the right way to do things

Executing black people on the spot, no due process of law afforded them. Modern day lynching. How is this the right way to do things?

I'm concerned about the covid risk to everyone there especially as BAME are more at risk of the virus

Awww it's so nice that many are suddenly concerned about the Covid risk to black people. Funny enough they don't mind us being at risk due to manning the front line in your Hospitals and Care Homes. But they do mind when we're on the front lines of protests pertaining to racist murders by those tasked with upholding the law. Who'd have thought it.

I'm not fooled by your wide-eyed scared breathless woman act at all. & We're not going to hold hands and sing Kumbaya either.

& We can and do make our own risk assessments thank you.

As you were.

GlummyMcGlummerson · 07/06/2020 01:11

Inunderstand the desire to protest but how is this the right way to do things?

Yes. Because people didn't wake up week ago and say "hey, there's a racism problem in the world, let's get violent". BLM and similar movements have been around for decades and have mostly laboured peacefully. The suffragettes in fact only started getting radical and violent after 50 years of being told to STFU and realising that, actually, a time comes when getting physical is the only thing left to do to be heard.

Pixxie7 · 07/06/2020 01:19

Deecherry@ it’s only relatively recently that it was realised that a. disproportionate number of BAME people have been affected by the virus so it is unfair to say people don’t care. This is being researched as we speak.

GlummyMcGlummerson · 07/06/2020 01:25

Also, everything @DeeCeeCherry said, with bells on.

This bollocks attitude of "can't we just all be nice and get along" shows privilege in a glaring light.

Sweetnhappy1 · 07/06/2020 01:43

Please read the following by this Doctor, I've posted the source below:

Mr Michael Okocha, BSc (Hons), MBBS, MSc, MRCS, MAcadMEd
General Surgery Registrar, North Bristol NHS Trust

Please allow me to share a few snippets apologies if I ramble. I am also aware that I have friends and connections who have gone through worse trauma than me. But trauma is trauma, these are just a few snippets

At 5 a Beckenham primary school teacher had it out for me and Alaistair, the only two black kids in the school. If we were reading, working, playing in the playground we could only do wrong. I didn’t understand what it was at the time, but I remember asking my parents if I was a bad kid.

At 9 I remember playing football at lunch time in a London school and a kid kicked a ball at a window. I was the only black kid playing and Ms G singled me out and made me sit down. I picked at the tarmac and flicked it away, she turned round, saw me and said I was throwing rocks at her. It was the first and last detention I ever got. I told my parents what happened and how I had been singled out, and I remember having the “it’s different for Black boys and girls” conversation. I remember my Grandma telling me that I needed to be extra careful with who I played and where I played. After this I stayed in the library most lunch breaks till I left the college.

At 10 my Dad was the Psychiatrist for the defence during the Steven Lawrence case - I had police escorts at school and reporters in my face for weeks. We had utter filth shouted at us, posted through the door, and at school people would echo words the racist British media had printed, just to see my reaction.

At 11 I remember cycling down our street from a summer club and a van full of white males slowing down to throw things and call me the N word. I remember cycling as fast as I could and them following me screaming and laughing. The followed me for the length of the street, around a roundabout and up to the barriers of the cycle path at Langley Park School where I sought refuge. I remember my mum holding me as I cried. And till today I can hear their voices and feel the debris hitting my back.

At 14 I remember the embarrassment at The Game store in Glades as the white mall security guard saw me coming out and asked to check the contents of my bag. The sensor hadn’t gone off. 14 was also the first time I was stopped and searched by the police whilst out with a friend.

At 15 I remember the random locker searches they started doing at our school that weren’t random. I remember that a couple of the white students decided it was ok to call us the N word. I remember that we used to have playground teams based on race. I remember the school pushed us all into athletics and Mr M telling us this is where our futures were. I remember so many times where I could have fought back but my Dad had hammered home that a detention on a white boy’s record looks “rebellious” and very different to detention on a black boy’s record which said “trouble”.

At 16 I remember my first date with a girl called Nel, the disapproving looks on the bus in Crystal palace, and someone asking her if she was ok - she was white. I remember my mum having the birds and bees talk with me, except it was about making sure I never put myself in a compromising situation and that prison was full of young black boys who thought they were in love until the white girls parents found out.

At 17 I volunteered at St Christopher’s hospice for medical experience, you could either have a patient facing role or kitchen role and remember all the ethnic people being put in the kitchen whilst the white volunteers got to work on the wards.

At 18 I remember getting lost in my Peugeot 206 and circling a roundabout in Croydon as the sat nav caught up. I remember the flash of blue and suddenly I was out of my car whilst it was searched by officers. I was saved by my Tom-Tom that kept saying “redirecting redirecting”.

At 19 I remember a friend and I being called gangsters (we were wearing smart shirts and jeans) and not being allowed in a club (Fabric London) even though groups of white men were going in ahead of us. I remember going to DJ at Ministry of Sound 999 event and being stopped and checked repeatedly asked if I had a knife on me as white kids walked in.

At 21 I remember walking back from Inamo London with my gf at the time, and a group of white guys stopped us in the street. I’ve never heard so much filth come out of people’s mouths. I felt so helpless as they brought her to tears. We were rescued by another couple walking down the street but before they left they made sure I knew I was a N***

At 22 during my mini SSC (medical student experience block) in Nicosia -Cyprus, whilst I was walking home from placement a car pulled up. The N word was thrown around as 2 white males got out of the car. Threats of death, and brandishing of objects. This sent me back to being 11, I ran to the nearest shop. And once back in my apartment cried the same without the parental comfort.

At 24 I had the privilege of being in Chicago for my clinical years. I also had the privilege of being followed in shops (as I wore my scrubs as protection from suspicion- or my ST GEORGES HOSPITAL MEDICAL SCHOOL jacket). I had the pleasure of being questioned by the police as I got on the L train . I had the pleasure of being escorted to a police station and called an N*** by a police officer for doing a u turn at a dead end. I ended up going to court to defend the ticket. The white judge dismissed the ticket, asked me what I was doing in the states, and when I said medicine he gave me the patronising good for you speech and told me I spoke very well.

At 25 I started my F1 (first year of being a doctor) in Plymouth, I cannot tell the number of times people wanted to “see the doctor”, gave me their food orders, called me “boy”. But I can tell you the two times the police stopped me driving on my way back home. I can tell you about being called "a bi N***" in a club, and you would not believe the number of white people that came up to me asking if I was selling drugs.

On my stag do we had pre-booked entry for Pryzm in Cardiff. When we arrived the club the owner initially turned us away, only letting us in after he gave us a talk about making sure there was no trouble. During this time about 30 white males in groups had entered the club.

At 27 in Taunton I left a cinema because some kids kept chanting the N word. When I say kids I mean 14-16 year old children. Musgrove park hospital is the most amazingly friendly hospital, but it was my senior colleague at the time, Dr Matt Hodder, who had to put racist patients in their place. I had a patient who refused my medical reviews, and I had a patient who called me “boy” repeatedly despite me asking him to stop. Both times Matt told them if they continued they’d have to answer to him.

I cannot count the number of times I’ve been asked where I’m from, no where are you really from, no what’s your heritage, ah Nigerian, let me tell you about this time I was in Africa or this thing I know about African people. My favourites are the patronising “good for you”, and “wow you’re a doctor, that’s really amazing” or “are you here for extra training" or "when are you going back”. I’ve had nurses ask me when I’m coming to collect and transfer patients, I’ve had consultants not realise I’m a junior doctor and I’ve had white people explain that they too get mistaken for things and that I shouldn’t take it to heart.

More recently I’ve been told I speak "really good English", I’m soft spoken “for a big black guy”, I’ve been told that now’s a really good time in orthopaedics for people like you, what dads? No black guys. I’ve asked how I managed to get a Reg training number and do so well - as if I didn’t put in the work. I’ve been singled out by a colleague, I’ve been ignored at the desk in a store.

I’ve grown up with a cloud of daily micro racial aggressions. I feel like I will always have something to prove, I will always make sure I’m the hardest worker in the room to fight every single racial stereotype. My Mum always said you need to worker harder than the best white kid to even be noticed. I never know if I've been passed up on an opportunity because I wasn’t good enough, they just didn’t like me, or because of Race.

I’m one of privileged, my parents suffered and worked so hard so that I had to confront less racism. I can’t even begin with what we experienced on family holidays. I can’t begin to tell you some of the hurtful racist things older English White people have said straight to my face. I can’t tell you the number of things young white English people have said. Every day we log on to our social media to see cultural appropriation, black people being killed or brutalised, and an overwhelming white narrative. Diversity is beautiful. Equality is a basic human right.

I’m tired of the narrative that there is no racism in the UK and things aren’t that bad if you’re a model citizen.

I can tell you of the welcoming and love I have experienced from my extended white Welsh family here in the UK and in Iowa. I can tell you of white work and university friends (like the amazing Chloe Foote and Adam Briki) who reached out to check on me in this time. And I can tell you of my childhood neighbours John and Pat who treated me like one of their own grandchildren for years. In these moments you forget that you’re black, you’re just a soul interacting with another soul.

Unity and Freedom. Equality and Peace.

www.change.org/p/uk-parliament-change-the-curriculum-celebrate-ethnicity-and-diversity-in-uk-schools-b7f8d949-024b-4c2a-8da8-0d9511ce34e8?utm_content=cl_sharecopy_22631684_en-GB%3Av3&recruiter=919697326&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=copylink&utm_campaign=share_petition&utm_term=psf_combo_share_initial&use_react=false&fbclid=IwAR0UzwhRhj5rp-i-qY4hqTuku_mlvEFvSYbvNe45Y6GLuRlD7F_Z7l5r11o

Sweetnhappy1 · 07/06/2020 01:47

Another one from the wife of a Barrister (I'm not sure how to share the Facebook link):

I hear some of you say this is America's fight not ours. I beg to differ, we struggle with racism in the UK too, structural racism is ingrained in our society and we have become so used to it we don't even recognise it is there, we've just accepted it as the way things are. But do you know who is aware of it every single day, our black brothers and sisters.

My husband is not a fan of social media so I don't mention him much in my posts to respect his wishes but I asked for his permission to share a bit of his story with you to open your eyes up to some of what really goes on here in the UK.

Leon is a barrister by day. His journey to the bar was a long and gruelling one. It took him 12 years to finally become a tenant at his chambers. He studied law at uni where he was told he wasnt good enough to be a barrister. He left and worked for a year round the clock to raise enough money to pay for his law school. You may or may not know that at the Bar it's a very privileged white middle class profession. After he qualified as a barrister he worked for 5 years doing low paid legal jobs to gain experience to get a foot in the door. He was rejected from many jobs and pupilage opportunities and watched as white counterparts with less experience and skill were offered those very same jobs. But he didn't give up. Eventually he was finally offered a pupilage (an essential training process which you have to have in order to become a barrister) and worked around the clock to prove himself more than capable. People often assume that he is the defendant (despite being in a suit) purely because he is a young black man and this mistake is even made by counsel. He has had to defend clients who are on charged with racial aggrevated assault offences and does so with grace, humility and integrity. Regardless of the offence, he does his best to represent all his clients to the best of his ability.

He is 31 and has been stopped and searched 7 times and unlawfully arrested once. On all these occasions there were no real grounds for stopping him and his arrest was degrading. On the day on his arrest, it was valentine's Day 2014. He was on his way to see me, in his bag he had a personalized plaque made for me for valentine's day with a hammer and nails to put it up for me. He was stopped by the police on the grounds that they believed he had a firearm, it was raining and cold, they twisted his arms and put him in handcuffs and pushed his face into a park railings. For 30 mins he stood there whilst an armed officer pointed a gun at him. He nose was running because of the cold and despite his requests, they wouldn't even let him wipe the snot running down his face. The all happened near to his home and his neighbours watched and walked past. He was utterly humilated. On arrest they searched him and didn't find a firearm but did find the hammer so they changed the reason for his arrest to suspected robbery as he 'fitted a description'?! He explained the hammer was to put up a plaque for his fiance which was also in the bag, they found it but still wouldn't let him go. Thankfully his mum and brother passed by in the car and saw the commotion. His mum jumped out to find out what was going on. He went to the police station. Eventually he was released. With no apology.

Every single time he has been stopped and searched (sometimes in his suit and tie on his way to work) he has been singled out and people walk pass him believing he is a criminal. Can you imagine the embarrassement? One time during a stop and search the police officers allowed their dog to put his dirty paws all over his suit and he arrived at work late with dog paw marks on him.

These are just a few examples of some of the injustices he has faced. And he is just one black man, who works to fight for justice, one man who has such a heart for compassion, one man who works harder than anyone I've ever known to provide for us as a family, one man who loves the Lord, one man seeking to break the stereotypes, one man seeking to inspire other young people to believe they can be more than what the world says they can be. He has never taken drugs, he has never hurt anyone, he has never stolen, the list goes one. He is just one black man.

A few people have asked if they can share this. My husband has given permission to raise awareness so please feel free to share it if you want to.
#BlackLivesMatter

Sweetnhappy1 · 07/06/2020 01:50

Sorry, last one now. I just think these stories need to be heard and understood:

I think I've got it.
I think I understand why I am SO torn about the BLM protests vs. COVID. It's death vs. potential death. It's which is the lesser of two evils? Let me explain:

As a healthcare professional I understand the consequences of attending a protest where it is difficult (but not impossible) to socially distance. I've watched as some of my closest friends and colleagues risk their lives to continue working on the frontline - tirelessly, underappreciated and underpaid. I've comforted them and listened to their stories of having to tell relatives that they aren't able to say goodbye to their loved ones. I've sent words of (little) comfort to friends who have lost relatives. I have delivered flowers to the door of my aunt who lost her son. I understand.

As a mixed race woman I also understand the struggles we have faced for hundreds of years because we are surrounded by racism, we are part of a racist system that is SO ingrained in our lives that people have only just now started to realise it. That's not an exaggeration. The things we experience now are very real (see my previous re-posts of some real experiences) and are a direct result of things that happened hundreds of years ago. I understand that the murder of George Floyd has caused a ripple so strong it is turning into a tsunami, and it is SO turbulent.

When the science says that BAME communities are at the highest risk for this disease, believe that those people attending these protests are NOT taking this decision lightly. They have a choice to make. Risk death by covid, or allow things to continue as they are, and by doing so, risk death? Death of a culture, death of a society, death of humanity, death of yourself or your friends/family all because of the colour of your skin.

I understand the frustration of this pandemic that is affecting EVERYONE, so everyone has a strong opinion. But yes, the ongoing systemic racism in our society, our country, our WORLD, poses a greater risk.

If you don't think so, then that is ONLY because it doesn't pose a greater risk to you personally.
Riding this tsunami is our best chance of change, so yes, we will risk our lives to take that chance.

It's not that we don't think we're losing to covid, but that we have more to lose by not protesting at this time. And that's why we move.

SomethingOnce · 07/06/2020 01:53

Awww it's so nice that many are suddenly concerned about the Covid risk to black people.

Don’t be like that. Part of the reason I’m continuing to go about life as before lockdown easing (instead of acting like it’s fucking party time) is that, while my family and I are relatively low risk for the worst outcomes, I can help protect my community by not assisting the virus in staying around. My community includes the medically vulnerable, older people, and people from BAME backgrounds, especially those on the frontline. I do mind you being at risk and this is one small way I can help, though I know it’s not much in the scheme of things.

I am also concerned about the risk of mass gatherings.

DeeCeeCherry · 07/06/2020 02:36

SomethingOnce

Human Rights are an important issue to me. So -

''Dont be like that'...

We don't die in our own countries. Neither from Covid, or racist murders. Since at this particular moment I live in UK I will take my chances and protest because either way, you and others commenting negatively and patronisingly but trying to dress it up as concern, don't care if and how we die. Negging black people then talking about 'My Community' don't go hand in hand btw

amusedtodeath1 · 07/06/2020 02:45

Thanks for posting those sweetnhappy1. These are the stories we need to hear. I had hoped life was somewhat better for black people in today's more "civilized" PC society but clearly not.

I'm so sorry people have to live like that.

SomethingOnce · 07/06/2020 02:52

I’m not dressing anything up as concern. I am concerned.

I wasn’t being negative, either. Of course you must do what you need to do. Just take good care of yourself while you’re at it.

CoronaIsShit · 07/06/2020 02:58

Has it actually even been deduced that George Floyd’s murder was racially motivated rather than plain old US police brutality?

SimonJT · 07/06/2020 07:10

@Mintychoc1

After today the divide between black people and white people has become greater. Very sad.
Only if they’re a racist.
SimonJT · 07/06/2020 07:16

@Leflic

If you don’t like stop and search then move out the city ( to any semi rural town) . The first tine we’ve seen the police in years is when they came for a drive past on a Thursday clap for the NHS. Not seen them before or since. Urban centres are terrible for polarising groups.
I grew up in a semi rural town, I was subjected to racist abuse almost everyday from being eight years old. I would be spat on, have things thrown at me and be told my children I couldn’t play with them because their parents didn’t like darkies.

Thank you for blaming people of colour for racism.

MadameMarie · 07/06/2020 07:41

All feels like the last 10 weeks have been for nothing now because of all these protesters who know their actions will kill people.

GoodbyePorpoiseSpit · 07/06/2020 07:52

Think my favourite bit about this thread full of white fragility is when posters put “I’m white ....”. Yeah, we know you’re white Grin the defensive, unempathetic, bosom hoiking rhetoric screams white privilege. The privilege of your experience of the police being positive, the privilege of deciding to attend a march ‘at the right time’ or peeing so sure of ‘the right way to go about it’. You mean YOUR way. You can’t imagine not being listened to can you? #mumsnetsowhite