Omg the scenes from the London protests

[SistemaAddict]

I'm just watching the news and am finding it so frightening to see the crowds, the police, the tension, the horse bolting.
I understand the desire to protest but how is this the right way to do things? I know there will be thousands of peaceful protesters among the ones causing trouble.
I'm concerned about the covid risk to everyone there especially as BAME are more at risk of the virus.

I hate confrontation and get very anxious so wanted to chat to others about this. Yes, I could switch off but I think it's important to watch and learn and understand what and why is happening.

I don't understand what positive outcome people are expecting from these protests? I get the 'The spotlight is now' and 'We can't be quiet any longer' mentality - but what actual outcome are people expecting in real terms?

But I am very scared for the negative outcomes that are highly likely to come from large groups of people gathering during a pandemic - and those outcomes will affect the BAME communities more than the white communities, as we know.

I couldn't care less what white people have to say any more. Silence is compliance

This doesn't even make sense

@Mintychoc1

Hold a minute....

You are upset at the thought of being hated by strangers for the colour of your skin? Bit of a bubble being burst there then.

@gypsywater how's that for irony!?

You may feel that way but it's still not a speck on the experience of black people every single day. Frankly we're lucky if the hate only comes from the general public. Hatred from the police and others in power happens every day too.

THEN you say it's not about you but proceed to make it all about yourself for the rest of the paragraph.

I don't hate anyone. Takes up far too much energy and time frankly.

But, if you're shocked that black people are sick of white people taking advantage of their privilege and using it purely for their own means then you need a bit more exposure to real life.
We are beyond gently explaining why we're not worth less than you. The other stuff you'll need to figure out for yourself.

@TheStuffedPenguin

More spelling out needed?..

@Frozenveggista* You've nailed it. I'm going to copy your post:

These threads tonight are so telling. They really show up people’s lack of empathy with other people who are suffering. This is not about police brutality it’s about police murder. If you are held by the police and die at their hands it’s murder. Black people die at the hands of police in the U.K. if you don’t know this you’ve been living under a rock. People have the right to protest. We don’t have to wear masks outside many protesters are though and most are peaceful. Like any protests tempers will flare, especially when you are tackling a problem like the institutional racism that leads to people being murdered by the very people who are there to protect life. This isn’t a problem black people have. It’s a problem society has that black people are victims of. If people can legally choose to protest and want to exercise that right so be it. If there is a rise in cases after the next few weeks I’m sure it must only be down to them and not down at all to the VE Day celebrations, the beach crowds, the outdoor drinking sessions, the schools going back or the house parties... no no.

Truthpact I don't know what media source you're getting your over-generalisations from, but the protests have been very largely peaceful and ANY march always has a minority attendance of trouble-makers not related to the cause in any way, antifas or extreme white.

@gypsywater

Interesting. What issues do I have that I might need therapy for?

In Scotland, Sheku Bayoh was killed in a similar way to George Floyd. I doubt most people in London know his name. I doubt they know that his family specifically asked people not to attend protests this weekend because they thought it was irresponsible during a pandemic. They asked people to protest online instead by writing to MPs, signing petitions, donating to their crowd funder etc.

Yes @Donkeytail but as more of them are arrested more die so as a proportion of arrested people they are kess likely to die but as a proprtion of total population they are twice as likely to die, you can see how the figures can be read really differently.
They are more likely to have violent restraint methods used too.
How to deal with gang related knife and gun crime while avoiding excessive arrests of black young people is a complex issue. Glasgow tackled it by treating it as a public health problem and instituting radical violence reduction programmes.

I'm behind the London protestors 100% and were I younger, I would be with them.

Check this out for Trump's reaction to peaceful protests:

@Twillow

So you think riots are fine if it's just a minority of people? How charming.. Oh it's fine everyone, it's only a small number of people attacking police and no doubt other people. Just ignore it.

Personally I think it's bad no matter how many it is. It gives a bad name to those who were peaceful. They shouldn't be attacking anyone.

@Donkeytail

The bbc article you link says that "black people are twice as likely to die in police custody" last line in the picture in case you missed it.

It also states between 2017 and 2019, 17 people died in police custody, 11 white and 6 black. Black people only make up 3% of the population compared to 89% white people, so how the hell did they have more than 30% of deaths.

My husband was working today as a police officer in London today, he has had to be physically close to both other officers and protestors. He was totally unable to socially distance to do his job. (He also was abused and dealt with violence but that is a normal part of his job - he said the vast majority were peaceful but inevitably they deal with the ones who aren't).

We have rigidly stuck to all the rules but I've totally had enough and so tempted to visit family at a distance tomorrow before the rules are tightened again (we are unable to generally as we are a larger family).

The beach scenes also really upset me.

I am totally in favour of the protests and would have attended in a few weeks/months but this will set us back and many more people will die as a direct result.

It also states between 2017 and 2019, 17 people died in police custody, 11 white and 6 black. Black people only make up 3% of the population compared to 89% white people, so how the hell did they have more than 30% of deaths.

Because they don't make up 3% of arrests, because most deaths occur in London, where they are not 3% of the population, and because thats a two year period which given the numbers is far too small too say it's '30%' - it has no statistical validity.

[quote happinessischocolate]@Donkeytail

The bbc article you link says that "black people are twice as likely to die in police custody" last line in the picture in case you missed it.

It also states between 2017 and 2019, 17 people died in police custody, 11 white and 6 black. Black people only make up 3% of the population compared to 89% white people, so how the hell did they have more than 30% of deaths.

[/quote]
Did you miss the part where they explain percentages?

@Truthpact
I didn't say violence or rioting in protests was ok, as you know.
I'm saying it's unfair that you are using that to condemn valid protesting. It doesn't give a 'bad name' to those who are peaceful, the media does that as well as the people choosing to focus on the incident that happened in London near Downing Street, out of all the many demonstrations that happened in London and other UK cities today.

Ffs - so much awful on this thread

People will do what they want to do regardless of lockdown/Covid-19.

Also it doesn't actually say that 6 of 17 deaths in custody were black. It says that 6 of the 17 deaths that involved police force were black.

And "The IOPC says, of custody-related deaths overall, it does not "necessarily mean that the use of force contributed to the death". It says mental health or drug and alcohol problems are factors. In 2018-19, almost two-thirds of the custody-related deaths were directly linked to intoxication."

It's not clear from the report if force was the cause of ANY of the six deaths, merely that force was used. The death mY have been caused by drugs or whatever. If you were really interested, you could look all six up. It wouldn't take long.

If we treated everyone equally there wouldn't be any reason to protest.

Surly that's a better option ?

If you don’t like stop and search then move out the city ( to any semi rural town) . The first tine we’ve seen the police in years is when they came for a drive past on a Thursday clap for the NHS. Not seen them before or since.
Urban centres are terrible for polarising groups.

Have you not seen the hundreds of threads on here about all of those things LaurieFairyCake? It's completely disingenuous to pretend that people only have a problem with these protests.

Personally I am of the opinion that open-air gatherings probably aren't much of a risk but a lot of people on mumsnet are scared if someone looks sideways at them in case they spread 'the virus'.

Now is not the time for this protest. I've hated every minute of the lockdown and resented it but gone along with it as everyones been screaming save the nhs, kids are bearing the brunt of it and can't even return to normal school life, now the record has been changed abruptly. If theres another spike in Covid 19 cases its our children paying the price again. No, I'm not racist and I appreciate having the opportunity to say how I feel. We've got this far but these protests have made me so sad.

Ffs - so much awful on this thread

Erm, I don't know about you but when I go to the beach I avoid others because other people are hell. That's clearly not possible on a mass protest.

You'd have to be really daft to think Cummings trip could cause a second wave. It makes a mockery of the rules, but one wanker does nothing.

Mass gatherings really are the worst possible thing for viral spread. I mean if you think that's justifiable then say so, but lets not equate people in self contained group on the beach with mass protests in urban areas.

And there's really no clear evidence about schools being a vector for covid-19

@Leflic

If you don’t like stop and search then move out the city ( to any semi rural town) . The first tine we’ve seen the police in years is when they came for a drive past on a Thursday clap for the NHS. Not seen them before or since. Urban centres are terrible for polarising groups.

I don't think a lot of people have those choices? It would be lovely to be able to decide to live where ever you like but here in the real world a lot of us are tied to where we live because of things like employment and finances. That's ignoring the fact that you shouldn't have to move to avoid being racially profiled.