How to help gender neutralise my DD4?

[Teacher12345]

DD is already picking up alot of gender stereotypes at age 4. She is obsessed with makeup (I do wear it but only week days and barely since lockdown). She picks toys, often because they have a girl on the box so she says things like "thats a toy for girls" and today, her brother and Dad were digging up the garden and she said that only the boys could do it. I corrected this (always do) and said that girls could do it too but that she isn't big enough to use the tools. She often plays with her brothers toy tools, lego, like super heroes etc.
We have never intentionally encouraged gender sterotypes but we do ourselves fit quite stereotypical roles.
How do I avoid steer her in a way that doesn't lead to a life that is men do DIY, women do cleaning and childcare? Are there any toys that encourage girls to do more typically male tasks? She loves pink stuff so maybe pink tools etc?
I will make it clear that I want to do this to show her that she entitled to an equal life and will pick a partner, career and life that is not chosen by societal expectations!

Have three daughters ranging in age from 10 to adult. They all went through an obsessive pink phase aged 3 to 5. I just let them go with it... They outgrew it. The 10 year old is just after building a huge car racing track and the other ones would not be seen dead in pink clothes or high heels.
Also have older boys (now adults) who loved pink as young kids, played with dolls etc. My eldest son was happily breastfeeding his doll for a long time and was heartbroken when he realised he had no womb.
A lot has to do with the division of labour in your home and the underlying power structures.
I would not buy pink tools but allowed my kids to use real tools as early as it was safe to do so.
I also did not try to discourage them to do the pink glitter stuff as I did not want to give them the message it was inferior to things associated with male stereotypes.
We had lots of barbies and other stereotypical atrocities etc floating about the house but I never bought any new, they came from charity shops / car boot sales but otherwise just generally went with the flow.
We did have dolls houses, racing tracks etc for all the kids irrespective of sex.
It seems to have worked quite well.

Get her involved in all the ways pp have suggested. Also make sure you are not doing the gender stereotyping thing of bunching disparate things together because they are "girlie" or "manly". There is absolutely no reason you can't like make-up and drive a truck.

My mother did the bill-paying, decorating and gardening when I was growing up, and I had never thought that these weren't just jobs around the home that parents did. Both parents workef

Most of my peer group see these are jobs that men do.

I object to the term wifework. If you are a single parent, you do it, it is managing the household.

I think talking to her, modelling the change you want to see and encouraging her into doing other things is great.

But she may still turn out to be a very "girly" girl and that may just be her.

As to where it comes from, I'm not sure - I have 2 boys and have treated them both the same, DH shares cooking, washing up and other kitchen duties, I do building of furniture and garden and DIY stuff, including being the "go to" person for anything that needs mending.
And yet DS2, for no obvious reason, became very anti "girl" stuff around the age of 3! Didn't like such a song, because it was a girl song; didn't like that toy because it was a girl toy, didn't like that tv show because it was a girl tv show - that sort of thing. Not a fecking clue where he picked it up from - as far as I knew, the children he played with at playgroup weren't into gender stereotyping, the tv he watched didn't specify that girls could do some things and boys could do others, and yet he picked this up from somewhere.
Wasn't his dad - DS1 had never done it either, so wasn't him - certainly wasn't me - it was a mystery!

He's got better now but he's still very choosy about what he likes - it's less obviously sex-orientated now though (thank goodness!!)

@Teacher12345, my dcs are teenagers now. And boys (but I had the same issue than you in reverse).
What hasn't worked is buying the opposite 'gender' toys (so tools in pink for your dd. I bought a doll house etc.. for my boys).
What has worked is not having stereotypes in the way we do things at home.
You dh needs to start sending time with his dd, the same amount than her dbro. He needs to spend time playng with dolls (so yes men/boys also play with dolls). He needs to be seen as doing some cooking and washing up. Even if it's just at the weekend.
You need to spend time in the garden with her and do some DIY. You need to play with her with actions man, toy tools and lego etc...

Read stories to her about women who have been engineers, researchers, cowboys etc... Be mindful of the general stories you read to er and the gder stereotypes in them.

And most importanty, do the same with her dbro!!

Because, now that my two are 17 and 15yo, what has made the most difference is what we, I and DH, have shown them about the divide of the work at home. It's what we talked about. Its seen me having an opinion and for that opinion to be respected etc...
Toys have made no difference at all.

For those putting words in my mouth, DH said he would find a trowel - not me because he is doing the digging and because I didn't even know we had one until I told him what she had said and he offered to find her one. It is not becuase I can't but because I hate doing it and I told DD that she couldn't do it because we didn't have the right tools for her. We are not gardening people to be honest so no we don't have light spades, a rake or any of the toher things you suggested @FreakStar.
I should point out that I did paint the garden fence last week and rearranged DS's bedroom on my own too so I guess she does see some stuff. Its just that we both normally work and don't do much DIY stuff anyway opposed to housework stuff which I do more off because I work less hours.

It might be also worth thinknig about what you do with your DS. Many parents have a boy and girl and think the gender stereotypes for the DD are a problem, but happy with the boy only doing 'boy' things and have traditionally 'male' interests.

You can't tackle your DD's gender stereotypes in isolation.

I’m honestly not sure I see that there is a problem here to be fixed..? OP you say you are girly and like stereotypically girly things - is there anything so wrong with your life that you would not wish it upon your daughter? What do we think is going to happen to her? My sister and I were raised on Disney princesses and Barbies, teddies, dolls and pretty clothes, I am a SAHM now and she is a vet. We are both happy, well-adjusted people with a range of interests, we both have successful and equal marriages, happy families etc (and both still love Disney!). I’m just really not convinced that the toys you play with as a kid have that much of a bearing on who you are as an adult.

I think as long as you’re not reinforcing stereotypes then she’ll probably be absolutely fine. Correct her every time she makes stereotypes, encourage her extra in male dominated things like maths, science, computing, and think about things you and DH can do differently to challenge her e.g. DH cooking once a week, you talking about bills with her etc. Read books and watch shows that are about girls doing boy things and vice versa. I think many little girls are very girly at that age - it’s the classic dolly, pram age - but the main thing is to avoid stereotyping yourselves over many years eg. By saying boys don’t cry or girls shouldn’t join the army. The fact you’re even thinking about this is a great sign.

as far as I knew, the children he played with at playgroup weren't into gender stereotyping, the tv he watched didn't specify that girls could do some things and boys could do others, and yet he picked this up from somewhere.
I found that many children TV programs are actually very stereotyped when you look a bit more carefully. Starting with the fact that few of them have a girl as the main character.
At that age, hearing that comment a couple of times is often enough.

@Teacher12345, Actually I remember. One of the things that also helped was to never pout a boy/girl label on clothes. My dcs have had jumpers for example that were deemed for girls (yellow ). They had tops that were pink (and actually were 'proper' boys tops). If they liked it, that was good enough oyswim.

If you don’t want your dd to play with dolls, just don’t buy her them.

However there is nothing wrong with her playing with these “girls” toys. Just get some “boys” toys as well!

My dds had farm playsets and garages, as well as dinosaurs and train sets! They also had “Oh Penny” playsets and the odd doll! I wanted them to be able to play with whatever toys they wanted.

My dds sons (my dgs’), have a play kitchen and shop. They also love cars and tractors and have a ride on digger!

Gender stereotypes are picked up because someone is displaying that stereotype to your dd. Don’t let her watch the adverts on tv. You go out in the garden instead of your dh (let him do the cleaning). I do all the diy in my house, my daughter’s now do most of the diy in their own houses. They see that as normal!

I wouldn’t worry about it too much, if she likes pink let her choose what she likes! You can read stories about strong women, but most importantly model the behaviours and values that you want to instil in her in the home. I don’t buy into this idea that we shouldn’t tell girls they’re pretty or wearing a nice dress, why can’t we do both! I’m 30 and like being told I look nice just as much as being told I’m clever, funny, good at my job etc!

You tell her "Do as I say and not as I do".

That should do it.

@Prowzunn yes, I have a big problem with my DH not chipping in and inparticular not taking on the metal load. I discussed it with him last night that he is sexist without even realising it. I have experienced alot of sexism in my life about what girls can and cannot do and I don't want her to accept it.
@DisgruntledGuineaPig I am actually pretty good at being neutral with DS. He used to go to dance lessons, wear dresses, sometimes I paint his nails and he cooks with me often. I think the big thing I am realising as I type throughout this thread is that these things happen because I make it happen. I show the kids these things. DH prefers to not share his tasks as it is quicker without the kids.

I do tell my daughter she is beautiful, but I say that to my son too! This is mainly because I had an eating disorder as a teen though and want to instill as much body confidence as possible.

Say things like
"wow you can run very fast!"
"You are so strong!"
"Great job digging/painting/whatever!"
"You can reach/stretch/bend really well!"

Things she can DO, not things she just IS.

@BuzzShitbagBobbly
We do that too!

This is very complicated. I had 3 brothers and did not stuff with them. I am also 6'1 with size 11 feet so not dainty!! I work full-time and DH does all the shopping and cooking. I never wear make up, never go to hairdressers, don't shave and hardly ever look in a mirror. I have 17 and 13 ye old daughters, both obsessed with make up, false eyelashes, shaving every bit of hair off their bodies. They also both love cooking and baking. Our 15 year old son just wants to cycle or online game with his mates but will do jobs when asked. Even if you model the opposite, your kids will just be who they are. I used to look after a friend's child who had been raised gender neutral and her mum never dressed her in anything but neutral colours. I remember the mum being really frustrated with DD refusing to wear something pretty to a family wedding a few years ago. Fast forward to secondary school and this child is suddenly into hair/ makeup/ fashion etc so probably social media will have more effect than parents can.
I also watched a programme last week that showed baby monkeys being released into a field with scattered human toys and without fail the boys found themselves toys with moving parts such as cars to play with and the females picked up cuddly toys and nursed and cuddled them. Make of that what you will.

misogynistic arsewittery that says traditional female pursuits bad, male pursuits good.

Or, don’t label them traditional female/male pursuits.

There is nothing bad about liking dolls. There is something bad about only liking dolls because that’s what you are supposed to like. There is nothing wrong with wanting to be a beautician, there is something wrong with thinking you can’t be a brickie.

Social conditioning is a thing and it is what leads girls to be less ambitious and women to gravitate to less well paid jobs, thinking they are making a choice. Call that arsewittery if you will, but ignore it at our daughters’ peril.

I think what you witness your parents doing at home definitely has an impact while growing up.

My mum was a very practical person, my dad much less so. She used to work in the garden, paint and wallpaper, and in the days when electrical goods were bought without plugs on ( I am that old ) she would put on the plug. She also baked, sewed and knitted very well.

My sisters and I just assumed women could do all these things because we saw our mum doing them. It never occurred to us that they were "men's jobs".

I think it's partly an age thing. I also think she hears things at nursery from other children.

Our house is the opposite of gender stereotypes, their dad was a SAHD, he does the cooking, i went out to work (just some examples but we really are 50/50 here)

We still get 'pink is for girls' or 'that's a boy's toy.' All we do is say there's no such thing as girls colours and boys colours and girls and boys play with the same toys. We repeat it everytime.

Mine hit 8 and now 2 won’t be seen with anything pink - dd1 age 12 wants to be an engineer and lives in jeans, dd2 loves all things yellow and plays football and dd 3 is a pink princess who loves ballet.

I believe it’s about challenging attitudes when they repeat what peers have said while also supporting them to be themselves, encouraging what they enjoy. Being girly isn’t a bad thing just not the only way to be female.

At home, dh and I both work full time but dh is home more than me. I cook but dh washes the clothes. This is our normal and what dc see.

A 4 year old can use a normal trowel

I found that many children TV programs are actually very stereotyped when you look a bit more carefully. Starting with the fact that few of them have a girl as the main character.

Agreed. Lots of the boys saving the girls from situations, never the other way round. And so many of the old favourites are still around too, with their outdated role modelling.

Frustratingly, when they do have strong girl characters, there’s a tendency to show the boys as idiots.

Make sure her brothers don't say what she can and can't do. Enocurage her to do a sport.

The best way to encourage anyone to do anything is to lead by example.
Do the gardening as a family etc