How to be a good white ally

[SoberCurious]

Can we share some ideas here please?

https://www.instagram.com/p/CA04VKDAyjb/?igshid=1coe9xx8vsdb3

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I had a good conversation with DS2 today. He felt the BLM protests in the U.K. were pointless, as USA doesn't care what UK thinks. I explained how much more there is to it than that- microaggressions, that our neighbours are facing discrimination we never even notice, that the way statistics are gathered and published is inherently biased, that inequity is inherent throughout our uk system. He listened and took it all on board.

I didn't know enough before now to have done a better job educating him. So much to learn.

Helped write local government equal opps policies way back in 1989. One of first women stewards amongst 50 stewards, there were four of us to start, we made it to a heady six

Wow Valkadin, you must have some stories to tell. I take on board what you said, I think I've been following fairly young activist groups that are perhaps more Americanised, and I see that people of colour doesn't sit well for some in the UK.

the way statistics are gathered and published is inherently biased

Could you explain more @picklemewalnuts?

This. It's only a tiny reference but very interesting article.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jun/04/genetics-bame-people-die-coronavirus-structural-racism

I agree re: the term POC @Porpoises & @Valkadin the internet does tend to Americanise our vocabulary doesn't it! I've literally NEVER used that phase until this week, online. Will stop.

It's like calling people Allies - instead of anti-racists, it's now necessary to differentiate between the two. As in, it is not enough to simply be anti-racist, we must now work out how to be good white Allies. Def sounds like very American / internet speak to my ears. But how else will we differentiate?

Thanks @Valkadin for pointing that out about POC.

Oh just remembered watching Dear White People on Netflix last year.

"Based on the acclaimed film of the same name, this Netflix-original series follows a group of students of color at Winchester University, a predominantly white Ivy League college. The students are faced with a landscape of cultural bias, social injustice, misguided activism and slippery politics. Through an absurdist lens, the series uses irony, self-deprecation, brutal honesty and humor to highlight issues that still plague today's"post-racial" society."

It's really very bingeable!

Interesting about the term "uppity" @Purplequalitystreet - thanks.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/335160/

Never knew that about the okay symbol either:

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/ok-sign-white-power-supremacy-alt-right-4chan-trolling-hoax-a9249846.html%3famp

Uppity isn't a word I'd use because by definition you are accusing someone else of being aspirational beyond their station, and that's just not nice. Who needs to say that?

Accepting that words and symbols have been misappropriated and are no longer acceptable is perhaps rule 101 of being an ally. Complaining about changes in terminology being hard to keep up with is a good indicator of needing to check your privilege!

Very powerful article here by Musa Okwonga:

bylinetimes.com/2020/06/05/white-complicity-matters-the-nazis-by-the-lake/

@picklemewalnuts I don't think anyone was complaining.

Not today, Sober, but people often do. 'Oh, I can't keep track of it all, what's the word now then?!'

And it is hard to keep track, but when someone tells you the language has changed then accept it and move on without fussing.

I agree to an extent, the best thing to do is listen to and try to use black and ethnic minority people's preferred language (which I clearly didn't achieve in this thread ). But I've also seen the focus on language be quite exclusionary and drown out actual discussions of substance, particularly on social media.

Case in point, in an environmental campaign group, young white university students discussing the lack of racial diversity with a middle aged working class white man. The man had black wife and mixed race children - this obviously doesn't mean he's immune from racism, but he had direct experience of issues faced by the black community. He was shouted down for not following the rules of what you can and can't say, according to "antiracism 101". The discussion descended into resentment in both sides. But I thought he probably had much more practical insight than the students, just a different educational background and wasn't part of the same subculture.

It left me confused and uncertain.

@picklemewalnuts

Not today, Sober, but people often do. 'Oh, I can't keep track of it all, what's the word now then?!'

And it is hard to keep track, but when someone tells you the language has changed then accept it and move on without fussing.

It happens with such speed and frequency it is becoming impossible to keep up.

But easterbrook there’s a way of dealing with it isn’t there?

If I called someone Bob and they said “actually my name is Rob, I hate Bob” I’d apologise and try and remember to call them Rob. I wouldn’t go off on one and moan about how there are so many derivatives of “Robert” around nowadays it’s hard to keep up.

Obviously that’s wildly simplifying things but if someone says “actually I find the term X offensive” then surely we should give people the courtesy of apologising and trying to use the appropriate way they’d like to be identified?

And to expand on that analogy - people are usually capable of remembering that their friend A likes to be called Rob but B likes to be called Bob. Likewise if person X refers to themselves as a “POC” but Y prefers “BAME” or “Black” or something else entirely; we should be able to “keep track” if we care about the people in our lives?

And actually that analogy probably ends there because if Rob screams at you the first time you accidentally call him “Bob” it’s probably a massive overreaction; whereas if someone is upset at you using the term “POC” it’s probably because they find it a loaded term that has been used against them negatively in the past.

@Dyrne & @Porpoises I agree. If someone is trying to be respectful & coming from a good place, then it seems counter productive to start screaming at them and or refuse to talk to them, if you want your voice heard.

I think the fact that some people like to be called black and others like to be called POC does clearly cause confusion. Perhaps, if someone shows concern about getting it right, for the benefit of their particular audience, then maybe that particular person/audience they are conversing with could let them know which term they prefer and move on?

Re: the point Porpoises made about the students, I do confess to worrying that this idea of just refusing to speak to people who don't agree with you 100% is prohibiting their own under standing. Much like the feminists v trans debate. But let's not open that can of worms right here.

It's a bit like when I meet someone & they have a name I have never heard before.... If I know I am going to forget it, I will ask them how to spell it & write it down (discreetly). After I have called them by their name a few times it will stick in my sieve brain 🤣🤷🏻‍♀️

By that last comment I just mean it's not hard to remember what someone prefers to be called. Bit long winded. Sorry 😬

I really like this thread. It’s so helpful as a white person trying to learn to be able to sound out questions.

I’ve worried about the apparent trend of younger people to completely to not engage with people that don’t agree with their point of view. I think social media, while being a massive positive force for change, can really reinforce people’s beliefs through the echo chamber effect by only following/listening to people that agree with your opinion. But the ironic thing is this is probably a result of social media itself. We are exposed to such hate online when we express an opinion it’s no wonder people only seek out those that reinforce their own beliefs or a truth they are comfortable with and leaves people less able to listen to and empathise with someone else’s situation and how that may bring a different perspective to an argument.

@5MikesOut one I brought was called amazing grace about a black girl who wants to play Peter Pan but is told she’s a girl and she’s black. The book doesn’t dwell on race and issues that but it’s a good conversation starter.

Apologies for the lack of punctuation in my longer post. It’s late and I should be in bed!

Good thread idea. I’ve seen some resources going around I will find and post here.