Do you think any other years will be back at primary before the holidays?

[Florabella]

I know the Government originally said that they wanted to get all primary children back to school in England for a month before holidays, but with yrs R, 1 and 6 using most of the available space, is that really likely to happen now? And if any other years do go back, who do you think might be next?

No, my children school can't accodomate any of the school years. The maximum capacity under the guidance has been used up by keyworkers.

I haven't seen any talk of allowing classes back part time (including switching R, 1 and 6 to part time). This seems like a fairer solution for all children, but maybe too much cleaning involved.

Although some schools are doing part time the guidance was pretty clear that schools should be offering full time places, rather than part time rotas.

We've only opened to one extra year group - reception, as guidance told us to prioritise the youngest years. We've still gone a little part time - 4.5 days a week. But that's to enable teacher's planning time and additional cleaning.

The problem with part time for more year groups is the extra deep cleans needed between the bubbles using the space. The staff shouldn't be swapping between bubbles, as that increases the risk, and the equipment and room needs to be cleaned down properly between two different groups.

Not at my kids school - they haven't even been able to accommodate yr, y1 & y6.

Many schools have also gone with bubbles smaller than 15 as that was the only way to keep 2m distance.

I really hope so. Maybe a bubble becomes a bubble of 30 so yes not possible to social distance inside that but still you remain just in your bubble and don’t mix outside it, so it’s still cutting down a lot of the social contact.
It’s a real shame that the guidelines were so explicit about not doing part time. I know a lot of places are anyway but it seems to me that if the government had included that as an option it would have been much easier for schools to think of ways to accommodate all. I would have much preferred both my children get the chance to go back a couple of days a week than for one of them to go back full time and the other not at all.

I haven't seen any talk of allowing classes back part time (including switching R, 1 and 6 to part time). This seems like a fairer solution for all children, but maybe too much cleaning involved.

This is one of the reasons our school is having children in part time from the start, because it would not have been possible to have any other year groups back if reception, 1 and 6 were in full time taking up all of the classrooms, and teachers from other year groups were teaching them. In theory if the other year groups came back the school could be reorganised again to allow all years to be part time, but the key worker provision would need to end.

@NotGenerationAlpha

No, my children school can't accodomate any of the school years. The maximum capacity under the guidance has been used up by keyworkers.

That must mean they have an awful lot of key worker children- I mean we have quite a lot in our school, but nowhere near enough to create bubbles of 15 for every classroom.

I think there are two things in play here:

The confusion about whether 2m distances are required within bubbles (for older than EYFS, as they have specific space requirements), or only between them, and the maximum size of the bubbles.

At present, only some schools are doing the full 'maximum' of 15. Many are restricting the maximum size to the number who can be 2m apart, which takes bubble size down to 6 or 8 in many classrooms, meaning a standard class of 30 could need 4-5 rooms + 4-5 staff at minimum.

If the guidance was absolutely explicit that 2m within bubbles should not be used as a way to calculate numbers, then a standard class of 30 requires 2 classes and a minimum of 2 staff (though tbh as no other adults can come into the room, 2 staff per room is a much more workable ratio, even for Y6).

This still means that in a standard primary with 7 year groups, the return of 3 year groups occupies the same space as 6 year groups usually would - which with keyworker children in the space of the 7th year group easily means that the school is full.

Only if 2m spacing within bubbles is completely removed AND maximum bubble size = normal class size can more year groups return, as only then do any classrooms become vacant. Even that requires essentially a full school staff - remove a few who are shielding and it becomes impossible.

Equally, rationed / rota-ed use of toilets - often the only place hot water is available for handwashing - may pose a practical maximum of children in at any time, simply for 'throughput through the toilets / sinks without mixing bubbles' reasons.

Alternatively, everyone - including those now returned plus keyworkers - go onto a half time timetable, though all staff would have to be full time and be in charge of both halves of each class.

Yep @Spikeyball ds2 special school have told me they have no idea when they will be able to reopen ,I can't blame them I don't know how they will be able to do it safely and that's quite apart from the worry of transport to and from school.

I don't think so.

The only schools near me which has gone back is the independent one, others are holding out until the 15th, although we do have a lot more key worker children in now. As we won't be opening on Fridays, and we are only having in 15 per class each week, each child will have only 8 days in school before the summer holiday.

If we know a child/parent from other years is struggling at home we're inviting them.

Our KW and vulnerable group has increased hugely over the weeks. The firs week there were only about 6 or 7 daily. Now we have just over 50 wanting places. Though not all on the same day and many are still wanting part time - but because we can no longer mix the children and staff within the bubbles, even the KW ones, it takes up far more school space and staff than before.

Alternatively, everyone - including those now returned plus keyworkers - go onto a half time timetable, though all staff would have to be full time and be in charge of both halves of each class.

The DfE guidance is that the staff shouldn't be mixing between bubbles either. Makes sense especially as the adult staff are the one most likely to be at risk if the catch CV, than the children.

Aragog,

I know. However, there are only two options which 'work' in terms of staffing / physical classroom space, both requiring a change to the current guidance:

• Increase number of children per 'bubble' to normal class size, with no 2m distancing within the class but some effort to keep those 'bubbles' separate OR

• Keep the maximum number at 15, no 2m distancing within the 15 but obviously more distancing possible. Children attend alternate weeks (or 2 days, cleaning, 2 days each week), but the two 'bubbles' using each classroom would need to have the same staff.

Neither are great for the staff. However, as a medically vulnerable older teacher, who has nevertheless decided that it is better to be in school, I would marginally prefer the second option. half size groups do allow more distancing within the classroom, and even if over the course of a fortnight I come into contact with two groups at separate times, I think it is less risky than spending 6 hours each day every day in a class of 30 with almost zero spacing.

I want my dc back at school....for their benefit, not mine. I don't care if they can't socially distance.

It's an absolute fucking disgrace that this is happening to our children's education and no one seems to give a shit

My youngest is Y2. Infant school can't take all the Nursery, Reception & Y1 children that want to return, so no chance of Y2 going back.
Our schools aren't back till June 15th due to a council decision.
They will be at a completely different Junior school in September, there's an online tour of the school - I really hope transition happens even if it's a half day.

Former,

The problem, as I am sure you know, is the risk of transmission within a school to a) staff and b) back out into the community to older adults and those who are vulnerable.

Say that person A is one of the 1 in 400 currently carrying the virus (of whom many will be asymptomatic or not have symptoms yet). They pass it to their child, who is asymptomatic. They spend 6 hours in a classroom with other children, who can then take the virus back to their own families. Parent B may then go in to work in a care home, or see vulnerable family member C, who then catches Covid, because of the exchange of virus in school.

It's really easy to rage about one's own child missing education - as a teacher and parent, I'm there. However, it's important not to ignore the risks that poses to others.

I don't think so and I don't think they should - there was some talk about doing early July, but honestly - 3 really weird, disorienting weeks at school, then back home for 6 weeks, and then back to school which will be different again? Much as I'd love DS to be taken off our hands for a bit (Y4) I'd rather keep some consistency and have a more informed start in September.

Apparently 12% of deaths are in the under 65s. So 88% in the over 65s.

Sad but worth sacrificing an entire generations future?

If schools go back part time in September there may as well be no bubbles.

Furlough will be ending so for some kids the days they're not at school they'll be with a childminder or a relative or a friend. They might be at a different setting every day.

You'd have more people in your bubble of 15 than you would in a bubble of 30 who attend every day if you still kept them apart from other classes.

I don't think part time solves the problem at all I think it makes it worse.

I’d love for it to be the case but I doubt it unless they change the guidelines. Which they might I suppose.

Former,

Teachers, headteachers, TAs and other school staff are not all young.

This idea that children can go back into school and pose no risk to anyone because 'children don't die' is wishful thinking.

Teachers, headteachers, TAs and other school staff are not all young

Ok problem solved. Anyone over 65 can stay at home if they wish.

This idea that children can go back into school and pose no risk to anyone because 'children don't die' is wishful thinking

The vast majority of people don't bloody die from covid. Even if you're 95 years old you've got a very good chance of survival.

I appreciate shielded and older staff won't want to risk it. I wouldn't expect them to.

However the vast majority of staff won't be either of those things.

My school is hoping to open to Y6 on 15 June. R and Y1 would be later if possible but I don't feel hopeful. My y3 ASD dd will not be back til at least Sept. That's 6 months. I'm worried She'll struggle more than ever going back.

There's no easy solution but I do feel like some children will suffer a lot because of this.

Yes because of course your child's education is more important than someone else's life Former ,I have a 45 year old dh with underlying health issues and a child whilst healthy has complex disabilities and an underlying chromosome deletion we have no way of knowing how if he catches the virus it might affect ,I don't want either my dh,or son to be a statistic,what is it I keep seeing on the Facebook profiles of parents with children with disabilities " your only the vulnerable is my everything "