Real boy and girl differences

[EveryoneLoves09876]

There is so much debate about real differences in sex (as opposed to gender and culture norms). You also get so much gender disappointment and I know mumsnet is mostly girl preference, but I've had jobs working in communities where boys are enormously favoured, so don't feel too sorry for boys lol. This doesn't give the real picture.

I'd be really interested in seeing what mumsnetters think are the main differences are between their girls and boys - if they have both!! Or do you really think the differences are nothing to do with their sex?

I have a baby boy and try to be as neutral as possible, giving him all sorts of toys and clothing (e.g. dolls as well as trains, clothes from boys and girls section although I haven't actually put him in a dress!) I don't want to bring him up in a sexist way but I'm sure I am without realising it! I try not to see his traits as sex related, although family already go on about his energy and appetite as if that's a male thing. I have no daughter to compare him to!

Do you feel like this is a real difference and what are they if so?

Interesting thread!

I have two small DS' so can't give experience of having a daughter, but already mine are very different to each other. DS1 (age 4) was late to walk, early to talk, always good with his fine motor skills, would sit nicely and pay attention to what you were showing him, always loved stories. Now at 4 he does have quite a bit of energy and at home likes charging about, but is still very physically cautious - runs hesitantly outside, likes to be helped on climbing frames, balancing etc. He's a thoughtful, sensitive little boy.

DS2 is only 15 months but already a force to be reckoned with! He walked at an average age, 13 months, but is already amazing on his feet and will walk far, he's practically running. He's rough and boisterous, would never sit anywhere, just flings himself about. Doesn't seem to be great on the fine motor stuff and isn't where DS1 was with speech at this age either. Yet he can kick a ball probably better than DS1 could at 2! Their personalities are completely different.

Both my boys are affectionate. DS1 loves vehicles and transformers but also plays very lovingly with his favourite teddies.

I'm one of two girls and we were also very different. I was more like DS2 in the boisterous, charging type sense (I was the second child) and DSis was a quiet, still, sensitive child. However I always loved dolls etc and girly things whereas DSis didn't and is still what I would class as a tomboy in her mid 30's. We sound similar to the daughters sylvanianfrenemies describes.

I watched an interesting talk by a neuroscientist once where she said that when asked most parents will say that you should treat boys and girls the same. However when they did an experiment asking the same people why a pair of male and female newborns were crying, most people said the boy was angry and the girl was scared. She concluded that she believed the parents when they said they would treat their children the same. They would treat an angry girl the same as an angry boy, and a scared girl the same as a scared boy. But it would be a poor parent who treated a scared girl the same way as an angry boy.

A similar study showed that when parents were asked to judge the climbing capability of their children, they consistently underestimated their daughters ability compared to their sons, even when the study measured no difference between them.

Most people don't want to be sexist, but we can easily react differently to our children even without meaning too, by interpreting their behaviour, interests, and abilities through the lens of our own biases.

We're also massively susceptible to confirmation bias. If my DS and DD are playing dolls together my MIL will look right through my DS to exclaim how "girls just prefer dolls". It's like she can't see him. When DS and DD are out playing in the mud together at the park, people will say to me "oh I don't know how you cope with two boys, they're just so much messier than girls". Even when I point out that one of them is a girl they often don't seem to register it and continue calling her "he". Then they go away with their biases confirmed because they think they've seen 2 boys playing in the mud.

For what it's worth my DS is 3.5 and DD is 1.5 and I haven't seen any differences between them yet. My DD spent all day today zooming about on her scooter, but is now asleep cuddling her dolly. My DS spent the day climbing trees at the park, then ate his dinner dressed as a fairy princess. They both needed 2 baths today because they got so dirty. I'm confident that if differences appear they will have been learned socially, and I work extremely hard to not be part of that process.

I have two girls and a boy (6, 5 and 19 months).

DS is different to DDs in certain ways. He will sit still for one thing. DDs would not sit still for a single minute as toddlers, constantly on the go. He is also a lot more affectionate and tactile than either of his sisters were (I'm talking in the past tense as they are older than him so comparing when they were his age).

But this may be down to individual personalities, as there are obviously differences between DDs too that have nothing to do with their sex,

Also, nature vs. nurture comes into play. DS loves charging around the garden and playing in mud (a boy stereotype) but when DDs were his age we didn't have a garden for them to charge around and play with mud in.

Worlds gone mad. Of course there are biological differences between the sexes. There is conditioning and social norms but remove all of that and there are significant physiological sex differences. Even in prepubescent children.

The tragedy is we, as a society, are trying to make both sexes homologous and brainwashing parents and children into thinking it’s wrong to treat them differently. Children need to be taught to be proud of who they are and that includes their masculinity or feminity.

Eugh, I swear it had paragraphs when I posted it!

I had 2dds then along came ds 6 years later. I didn't notice any change until he started nursery and began mixing with other boys. At home he has just me and his sisters and no male role models. Once he started nursery he became aggressive and is a lot more physical as in rough playing and rough handling of others. Dd1 was always a destructive child and ds is the same taking things apart and breaking them. Dd2 isn't naturally destructive at all. Ds is very affectionate and has been called a mummy's boy which I hate. He hasn't got a dad so of course he comes to me for everything.
Socialisation is a massive thing.

The tragedy is we, as a society, are trying to make both sexes homologous and brainwashing parents and children into thinking it’s wrong to treat them differently. Children need to be taught to be proud of who they are and that includes their masculinity or feminity.

I agree with this to an extent. My girls who are now 5 and 6 understand what it is to be female and we embrace it together. But how do you do this with a toddler for example? They don't understand the difference between masculinity and femininity?

They get socialised so, so early. DS2 isn't old enough to even notice that he's a boy yet, except for the willy playing, that I'm certain they all do. But I remember DS1 having very strong ideas about what were "girl things" or "boy things" pretty much as soon as he knew the difference. I read something about how when children are very little they are in a stage where they are trying to understand what they are and what they are not. So they really pick up on any kind of category that people seem to belong to. The researchers think it's part of tribal instincts and socialisation. How we know we are humans and should emulate human behaviour and not say dogs or sheep. I do know some toddlers who have tried to copy the family pet though!

But anyway, the point is that young children are hardwired to try and find out which "tribe" they are in, and the two main differences that seem to be apparent to them are grown ups vs children, and boys vs girls. You might also see other more localised "rivalries" such as the red group and the blue group at nursery/school for example. But the one which is almost universal amongst children is boys and girls. And we do it all the time, don't we? We address them as good boy/girl, or we call them boys or girls (or even boys-and-girls) rather than using their names if there is a group. When we are teaching them to speak by pointing out things we see, or reading first words books for example, we don't say there's a child or there's a person, we say that's a girl or boy. You don't have to say anything stereotypical or gendered about the two groups. The point is that they're constantly being reinforced for little chidren. And so naturally they learn that they are part of one or the other group and they set about looking for the differences, and the differences that you mainly find are stereotypical ones. You can have the least stereotypical ideas of boys and girls and they will still be picking up on the fact that this is the most significant "tribe" they are part of and working out how best to fit in and how to not be like the other tribe.

I tried to emphasise other groups instead (so saying we're the Botts family and Bottses always try again! Instead of big boys try again or whatever) and avoid using gendered phrases like good boy or whatever, but they always pick it up anyway when they go to school.

@CherryPavlova

Worlds gone mad. Of course there are biological differences between the sexes. There is conditioning and social norms but remove all of that and there are significant physiological sex differences. Even in prepubescent children.

The tragedy is we, as a society, are trying to make both sexes homologous and brainwashing parents and children into thinking it’s wrong to treat them differently. Children need to be taught to be proud of who they are and that includes their masculinity or feminity.

The things we associate with masculinity and femininity are just stereotypes though. I think the world will be a better place when you can be yourself and we celebrate the strengths that our differences as people bring us as a society. Celebrate being yourself, not how much you fit into the boxes we try to put people in.

But also, I have two boys and they are very different from each other. If I'd had a girl and boy, then I might have been inclined to think oh, it must be a girl and boy thing. But in reality they are just different people.

I have 3 boys & one girl. Age 12-20 now.
My toddler girl had far better fine motor skills with her hands than any of the boys, this was super obvious and it translated into her doing more fine motor skill activities at an earlier age.

the girl preschooler & 2 of the boys lined stuff up, but only those 2 boys got obsessive about it, would get angry if you moved the lines. DD is my only DC who never got tagged as having behaviour problems (she can be wild & naughty, is just sneakier about it).

DD also taught her brothers how to do role play ; that didn't come very naturally to the boys. OTOH, middle-DS taught all the others how to fight.

DD was always more aware of relationships than the boys. As a toddler she defined herself by referring to me, her dad & her brothers. Reception onwards meant daily recap of her social situation, and commentary on the relationships her friends have with each other. Not one of the 3 boys ever recited daily gossip. DD is much more interested in my personal history & in family history than the boys -- and she remembers what I've told her about me (the boys forget instantly). DD is fascinated if I have an emotional reaction to something; the boys are just sympathetic or alarmed.

As a small child DD seemed like pure introvert but as teen turned extrovert. Middle DS (the beliigerent one) is the only true extrovert but shy. He very occasionally gives a little gossipy detail on his friends.

So for me, key difference is the girl has cared so deeply about relationships.

Yes, some of the thing associate with sex differences are down to stereotypes but it does a disservice not to acknowledge equality and sameness are not the same thing.
There are differences in information processing, in reactions to pain, in strength and agility. They are biological differences.

Got my boy some lovely plushies but he has rejected them and only likes to play with cars....

So I tried 🤷‍♀️

But my sample is N=1

@CherryPavlova, but no one is suggesting there are not physiological differences in male and female children. The PP is asking about perceived behavioural differences.

I suggest as I always do on these threads a read of Cordelia Fine’s highly-regarded Delusions of Gender (she makes an excellent case for the faultiness of the science that thinks that there are ‘male’ and ‘female brains’ hardwired to systematise or empathise) and Testosterone Rex.

When I studied educational psychology we looked at bullying behaviours I’m children and teens and how they differ between the sexes. That was really interesting. Boys are much more likely to name call and be physically aggressive but also much more likely to forgive and be over it fairly quickly.
Girls have this whole realm of gestural behaviour which usually only other girls pick up on. Eg, the popular girl might walk in a room and take a seat but in her way she looks another girl up and down. It takes a second, but the girl who got looked up and down will feel the same level of attack as the boy who had been punched in the nuts.
My husband always used to say it amazed him how me and my sisters can have entire conversations using just our eyebrows! After studying that module I understand it a bit more and find it fascinating.

I really agree with the posts from @ByGrabtharsHammerWhatASavings and @BertieBotts. I think that we constantly teach children that boys and girls are different, so of course they reflect that back. I know I'm guilty of it with DS, even though I try not to be. For instance, I have only a couple of times ever bought something from the girls' clothing aisle and that I don't buy him many stereotypically girls' toys. I've noticed that this is true of all my friends with boys - while the lefty, right-on women I know with daughters tend to make a big effort to get them stereotypical 'boy' things no one ever does much the other way round, maybe one token doll.

It makes me really sad when people tell tiny, tiny boys that they mustn't cry - the comment about people assuming a newborn is angry rather than scared just because it's a boy is awful. I find it so odd that people seem to value baby girls much more highly than boys in the UK - the gender disappointment threads only ever go one way - but then that at some point this just evaporates and older boys and men are treated as much more high status. It's like girls are valued as long as they don't grow up

Before 1 maybe just babies are babies. Post one my first DC who is boy turned into typical boy. He loved cars, vehicles, running, wine sit and fine motor skills aren't refined ( Hayes colouring) I got him a range of toys as a baby including toy kitchen, tools, farm /zoo animals, medical kit, people including female dolls. We have male and female police officer figures and doctors. I now have a baby DD and she will be playing with the same toys once old enough.

I love bright colours so dressed DS a lot in Orange/ prints/ yellow and green. He picks blue everything now. Could be just because it's different from what I choose for him ?!

So far as a baby DD seems chattier and babbles more than DS did, he wasn't much of a babbler.

I do think there are big differences personally as even at preschool you see the boys together and the girls together once interacting so 3+ when playing alongside is say it's still mixed.

Oops post 1 my DS didn't like wine .. bit of a typo there ha !

I was shocked that DS was fascinated by vehicles from the time he could turn his head to look at them. First word was digger. I was convinced it was all a social construct until that point. Now age 3, he is still stereotypically vehicle and construction mad but also enjoys dressing up, helping animals, and pretending to breastfeed his teddy. I try to encourage all his interests .

DD (12 months) is developing a fascination for motorbikes.

Also DD is much chattier.

Have a girl and a boy. No difference in toys they favour but my boy is definitely more physically daring. I’ve also noticed more anger and frustration at a younger age. I don't know if this is just personality as dd is naturally cautious and my son is the youngest so less PFB namby Pamby parenting going on maybe. And he has the constant teasing and annoyance of an older sibling to contend with which could make him more frustrated.

I was shocked that DS was fascinated by vehicles from the time he could turn his head to look at them. First word was digger. I was convinced it was all a social construct until that point.

But how could it not be social? A fondness for diggers - or indeed vehicles of any kind - can't possibly be deep-wired into our genes; they've only been around for a blink of an eye in evolutionary terms. It's not like prehistoric boys were going around playing with diggers!

There physiological differences impact on behaviour and character. Solid research rather than an inevitability biased book.

If we deny differences we fail to meet the needs of children and they end up in a terrible muddle thinking perfectly normal behaviour for their sex is in some way unacceptable. Boys see a preference for very feminine behaviour and, since many lack good male role models, they don’t know how to become men. Nobody is teaching them.
There should be acceptance of a wide range of personalities but much personality is learned behaviour. We should be more willing to teach our children their characteristics that are innate and down to their genetic make up are good things.
It has huge significance for the way children learn or fail.
Multiple studies suggest that girls score higher on tasks that require rapid access to and use of phonological and semantic information in long-term memory, production and comprehension of complex prose, fine motor skills, and perceptual speed.
Boys, meanwhile score higher on tasks that require transformations in visual–spatial working memory, motor skills involved in aiming, spatiotemporal responding, and fluid reasoning, especially in abstract mathematical and scientific domains.
Pushing children towards ‘gender neutral’ learning clearly disadvantages young men. That’s about biology not whether they are put in shoes with tractors on.

I've got 2 boys.
Both were early talkers. Good fine motor skills from a young age. Played 'nicely' with cars/trains (eg pushed them around the mat and didnt crash them). Both loved their baby dolls. We had many many birthday parties for the babies. They were 'breastfed'. All of this is the behaviour that it typically associated with girls. They also used to run around with nerf guns but have never really enjoyed rough play. They used to run around the house wearing my tops as dresses. They are teens now and still love craft and musicals/Disney movies. Youngest can knit. Eldest sews really well.

My family will insist there is an innate difference in girls and boys, and use my niece and nephew as an example. I don't think they realise how much they have influenced their likes and dislikes. For example, nephew loved Iggle Piggle and had a lot if Iggle Piggle toys. When niece was old enough to pick things up herself she was drawn to them. Cue "oh we'll have to get her some Upsey Daisy toys. Iggle Piggle is for boys". They both have Lego, nephew has Lego city. Niece has the pink "girls" sets. They are not allowed to mix them up and play with them as one set . If I point any of this out I get told "you would understand if you had a daughter"

I think hormones do play a part, but not in babies and toddlers.