What is your 4 year old like?

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I'm interested to hear what others' four years olds are like. I find mine (DS, 4 years 4 months) very challenging at times but I openly admit that I'm a bit of a control freak, bossy and have very high standards of everyone...so it would be helpful to have a bit of perspective!

Things I find tough about DS:

• he will not play alone, hardly ever. He's very needy and I think gets anxious about being left out (we also have DS2 14 months) and so he follows DH or I everywhere a lot of the time, unless he's watching TV
• he's fussy about really tiny things, eg getting cross because his porridge is too hot to eat THAT VERY MINUTE.
• he seems grumpy a lot, sometimes for no obvious reason
• he's quick to snap for no obvious reason, and be aggressive. He's much better than he used to be as we went through a phase of hitting a lot before he turned 4, but he still does it, and if not he'll either shout or be aggressive with his words eg you're being NASTY to me mummy etc
• he's not destructive exactly but has to be told not to do things a lot eg touch hot things, start spraying a bottle of cleaning spray that's hanging around, touch a freshly painted wall...
• I think he can be controlling/fussy about random things eg will insist on going down the stairs first in the morning, insist on going up to see his baby brother first when he wakes up, wants baby brother to keep playing with him when clearly baby bro has had enough
• he doesn't seem to have a great attention span, he'll concentrate on Lego etc but not much else. Isn't keen on crafts, colouring etc although he's definitely getting better with age
• feel like he doesn't listen to half the stuff I say!
• he seems unsure of himself, a bit anxious and lacks confidence. I blame myself for this partly as I suffered with PND last year and I'm not proud of how I parented a lot of the time

Things that are lovely and positive about him:

• I found 3 a very hard age and 4 is definitely easier - he just seems that bit more reasonable and less impulsive (slightly!)
• he can be very loving and sweet, often tries to cheer his little brother up if he's sad or just make him laugh or smile for no reason
• seems imaginative and creative if you actually play with him properly, but it's a shame he rarely seems to play like this alone - he seems to need someone to bounce off even if I don't give him much creative input
• he seems to respond well to gentle parenting tactics eg from the How To Talk...book, but equally will usually respond ok to threats when used eg stop being naughty or the TV will go off

When you say you weren’t particularly proud of your parenting style, what exactly do you mean by this?

rosskemp I lost it with him way too many times. Shouted, proper screamed at him a few times. Never swear words or anything but things like "horrible child". Trust me I'm so ashamed, I know PND isn't an excuse for treating a 3 year old that way no matter how challenging they are, but that's what happened. I started taking medication in the autumn last year and it's like I'm a different person - I'm myself again.

Hi Op, I have a 5.5yo Dd and we found 4 a really hard age. As well as how to talk, we found 123 magic really helpful. It gave us a framework for fair discipline that helped us both to not lose our cool. There might be some things you can do to facilitate playing alone, my friend (ex teacher and generally brilliant) is sharing tips at the mo and I've found them really useful. Things like invitation to play where you put things out strategically eg a tuff tray with blocks in sand that's ready when you come down in the morning / label toy boxes and shuffle them around frequently / have a bored board with pictures of their toys that they can use to pick what to do / explain why playing on their own is important (Google it) / set a time limit, start small and work up eg play on your own for ten minutes then I'll come see how you're getting on, use a timer if you need to / have a treasure box full of crappy fiddly bits that you only get out once a week max when you really need them to play on their own for a bit eg toys from McDonald's! / extend play by dipping in and out to show something new with the toy. Cut yourself some slack op and remember everything is a phase.

Well I’m glad you’ve managed to turn things around now but a child's brain develops at its fastest during the first five years of life, especially the first three years.

It may be worth you reading this for greater insight into why your child is behaving as he is - www.factsforlifeglobal.org/03/1.html

My Ds is 4 next week. He is quite an angry, aggressive child if things don't go his way or he doesn't get something there and then.
Also has 0 attention span we can sit and play and he'll go between toy cars and trains and paw patrol in a matter of minutes!
I have a 9 month old Ds and my 4yo just has no time for him at all, pretty sure it's all to do with attention and jealousy but it's quite hard!

He also needs to be sat and played with, Will only play by himself for 5 minutes or so, he literally follows me around the house if I'm doing chores, it can be quite frustrating.

Thanks indecisivelurcher, I follow 5 minute mum on Instagram and I've tried the invitations to play a few times! It does actually work sort of, when I've set things up in his room he will play...but as soon as he hears anything going on downstairs he's straight down! He doesn't like to miss anything at all and doesn't like to be alone I don't think. I have tried setting up the invitations downstairs so we are around but DS2 just destroys everything. DS1 is slightly better during DS2 nap time in that sense, shame his naps aren't longer! Thanks for the other tips though they're good, I definitely want to encourage it.

bigmamama I definitely found my DS slightly easier since turning 4. Just that bit more emotionally mature I guess. Sibling jealousy is very tricky though as we have that too and actually it started when DS2 was the same age as your baby, 8-9 months. He didn't seem threatened by him up until then. He's definitely still jealous now although equally he loves him for sure and I can tell he wants him as a playmate. But if say I'm reading a story to DS2, DS1 is straight over and always insists on sitting on my lap. He's not quite as bad with DH so I think it's a "mummy" thing.

Nothing you've described sounds unusual for a 4 yr old in my opinion. My DS (5 in a few months) displays many of the behaviours you've listed and I've seen similar with his peers. The only difference is he will happily play on his own. His does have spectacular meltdowns / bursts of anger and they are mostly linked to tiredness or hunger. The 'controlling' behaviour e.g. demanding to go first down the stairs is surely very common at this age?

DD was a very different 4 year, less prone to tantrums but not as independent and completely unable to occupy herself. She is 6 now and quite often still follows me from room to room...

I recommend Concious Parenting by Dr Shefali X

Trying. Very trying, which lockdown is amplifying... I would take newborn days over this age for sure.

Have downloaded 123 Magic, thanks for the other recommendation will try that next!

Eastie77 I don't actually spend all that much time with small children so don't have much experience! I do think lockdown has amplified everything though. It's helpful to get perspective as I definitely expect too much of people including DS...

Sounds like my 4 year old. Utterly lovely, intuitive, creative and great language skills but a drama llama, massive pain in the arse, cries over nothing at all. Massive whingebag.

Try The Sensitive Child book, I will try to find a link. Gives you some insights into how best to communicate with them and what skills they need help with more than others vs what they will 'get' years ahead of their peers.

Funny creatures, children!

It’s his personality OP.
My 7yo is like this and has been like this as long as i cam remember. I found his toddlerhood incredibly hard. School helps. (Or it it )

My own 4yo has a speech delay and doesn’t seem 'bright' but can play alone imaginatively for ages and has much more empathy than his brother.

Don’t beat yourself up, try and model goodish behaviour.

Here we go

FFS

Oh sorry! That probably wasn’t very helpful!
I meant it in a sympathetic way and for you not to blame yourself!

Thanks all I will look at the highly sensitive book too. This morning I came downstairs (my morning for a lie in) and I could already hear DH telling him enough already as I walked in DS1 shouted at me so DH shouted at him, DS1 threw a cardboard block at us...

I know shouting isn't the right way to deal with the naughtiness but sometimes the behaviour just seems too bad for the more gentle parenting techniques!

On this how much sleep do your 4 year olds need? DS1 has always been a fantastic sleeper, and was really affected by being overtired even as a little baby. Now if he's even a tiny bit tired it seems to really affect his mood from the minute he wakes up. He is annoyingly woken up most mornings by DS2 between 6-6:30am, when I think naturally he's a post 7am sleeper. We have him in bed with lights off most nights at 6:30pm to compensate but it still doesn't seem enough.

My son is four, although scarily he turns five in June. He’s amazing, he’s also a huge pain in the arse.

Annoying bits

• questions, yes I know this is normal, but one day I’ll explode because of the (usually stupid) huge number of questions he asks a day
• struggles to settle without me, school has been an absolute nightmare, but this has been expected
• loud, he is hearing impaired, but even with his hearing aids in he shouts sooo loudly
• he is incredibly stubborn (no idea where he gets that from
• oscar worthy tantrums, I have had to pop to the neighbours before and explain that I’m not actually murdering him
• he makes me play the dreaded “lets pretend” this is also where I discovered that I am willing to negotiate with a terrorist

A few of the lovely things

• he is very cuddly, if he isn’t busy doing something then he’s usually sat on me having a good cuddle 😍 he gives the best cuddles and kisses
• he’s very sensitive, even at four some boys have already been trained to hide their emotions, his willingness to cry etc is a good thing and he sees me doing the same
• he likes being a helper (by which I mean he is my slave)
• can finally wipe his own bum
• he can play fairly independently for a good half an hour

Sleep, well he is asleep by 7:15 at the very latest, he wakes up around 8am.

How can I forget the "let's pretend" I actually hate them words! I'm sick of being the baddie and thrown in jail for 65 weeks or sometimes 59 years, I'm sick of being daphne from scooby doo looking for pretend monsters 🙈 or being the shop man in Tesco. I hate this as much as having to sit and play Lego or cars or trains! I'm only allowed the crappy cars anyway he gets all the good ones and he has to tell me what to do and how to play or he will have a meltdown and throw everything everywhere and if I dare laugh ooohhhhh I'm the worst mammy that ever lived. It's sooooo draining !
And even though we have daddy, he only ever wants to play with mammy! I can't ply anymore I'm sick of it I actually hate it!

What you describe is very familiar, my DS (now 6) is the same. I spent a long time wondering if he had ASD, and/or whether I was doing something wrong as he always just seemed a little unhappy. However I concluded he was just very very sensitive, and that this was his personality. School has helped, and he has definitely become easier as he's got older. Still, though, he has his moments, and I would still describe him as a challenging child. Especially compared to his easy going sister.

One thing I found that helped is to try and really focus on the positives. I loved the book How to Raise Your Spirited Child which really instilled this in me. Still find it hard not to get totally exasperated and shout sometimes though... it's tough!

He does sound like a very normal 4 year old OP - not to say that it makes it any easier on you though. My DS was very similar at 4 and is regressing while in lockdown. He cannot seem to do anything on his own - fortunately he has a very tolerant big sister.

I still wish now that I knew what triggered his moods - hunger and tiredness for sure but they aren't always the culprits. Some days he is just so grumpy!

Magic 1 2 3 helped us to some extent as did love bombing but most of all consistency - typically the hardest thing for us parents but it was worth the effort and I always regret letting it slip! Also starting school helped - I was dreading it as just did not think he would settle well but it was the making of him so I think he needed the mental challenge.

Thanks everyone! In fairness to DS his (and all other DC) world has been turned upside, he's gone from a busy week, mix of pre school/nursery wraparound/grandmother childcare, weekends full of activities. He's only made one REAL friend at preschool but they are BEST FRIENDS and seem to love each other. They have FaceTimed a few times and basically just shrieked/giggles at each other and made faces. So clearly he gets a lot of energy out at preschool (and nursery most likely), that just can't be replicated at home no matter how much playing or exercise we do.

Overall I think he's been good. But when he has naughty moments/days, I forget that as he just seems so grumpy/angry/highly strung.

The irony is he was such an easy toddler. No terrible two's here. He got slightly naughtier from about 2 and a half, soon after we potty trained, and I still slightly feel he hasn't fully forgiven us for taking away his night time dummy a couple of months before he turned 3.

I do find the books help though, started reading 123 yesterday and I've made a note of the highly sensitive child.

Have you looked at how often you say 'yes' instead of no?

Sometimes, we don't realise how often we say 'no not that' 'no be careful' 'no something else' and before we know it we have a child who is then very unsure of what they actually can do.

Shouting very, very rarely has a place but you already know that

It is just a personality/age thing. My 4 year old is similar but he brother was a complete breeze at the same age so I don't think it's related to our parenting.

He is so whingey and whiney and throws huge tantrums over nothing. The other day I accidently sat on a biscuit he'd left lying around and he had an epic tantrum. Apparently he's going to exercise and exercise until he's really, really strong then throw the fridge on top of me as punishment . Then before that he attempted to throw his scooter over a bridge into a stream because...I can't remember the reason. I call it his artistic temperament .

He will sort of play on his own if the mood takes him but mostly not. He throws a wobbly if people are looking at him or not looking at him. He doesn't want to do anything independently that is age appropriate (getting dressed, washing himself, brushing his own teeth) but will be furious if he's not allowed to do things that definitely aren't safe all by himself (cutting up food with a sharp knife, walking around the house with scissors, climbing up tall stepladders).

No advice, but I'm sure it will pass eventually .

2007Millie both DH and I say no/be careful/don't do that etc etc way too much. I'm conscious of it and am trying not to, DH is much worse for it and obviously we're all around each other 24/7 at the moment!

I'm really trying to ignore bad behaviour where I can too. Eg we've recently got Alexa which is a big novelty and if music is playing when he comes into a room he'll often turn it off or change it to something he likes. I used to say hang on mummy was listening to that etc and it would often turn into a row then, but now I don't, I just leave it. It's this sort of thing really where I think I hold my standards too high - he's four, not an adult. I sometimes expect him to react emotionally like an adult or even just an older child but in reality he's so tiny.

He's just SUCH hard work sometimes! But equally sometimes so lovely. Argh.