What do people think of Careers Advisors?

[Somethingkindaoooo]

So, for people who work in education... what are your thoughts?
I work in a few places atm, so secondary, college level, and adult work.
I generally love my job. I have many many years of experience, and I believe I do help people.
But dealing with academic staff is sometimes so challenging. I get spoken down to constantly. People don't seem to understand the role , so when I do my actual job, people often get a bit shirty.
So, I'm curious- do academic staff value careers advisors at all?

To some extent I don’t think it matters if people change their mind about what they want to do from age 16 to any age you choose! I do think being able to talk to someone about what you like, what you are good at and what course of action you might choose is invaluable.

I think it’s also worth taking A levels that keep options open. For those doing BTecs, the options are closed down quicker. Therefore before choosing a vocational course at 16 there does need to be an understanding that these courses lead the DC in more defined directions at an earlier age.

Many of us don’t have a clue at 16. I realise now that I had no real idea of what jobs were available and even less idea how to get one. I changed direction and it took me 6 years of part time study to do so. I gratefully accepted financial help from my employer and eventually achieved Chartered status in my profession. It was a massive slog though! So it’s perfectly ok to change direction but I really do agree that those who know what they want at an earlier age are truly blessed!

Exactly bubbles - this why there is a focus on career management skills.
It's absolutely fine for a 16 year old not to have a clear career idea and it's important that they know this. I've seen schools be very 'destination' focused and those without clear career ideas are seen as failures. This doesn't mean they don't have a plan but it just might be more general at that stage.
Some career theories promote indecision as this can open up many options. We need to make sure we don't confuse indecision with unfocused .

BubblesBuddy I actually disagree that taking A levels keeps your options open.

Friends Ds is in very deep depression and is incredibly angry at how much time and money he has wasted.
He was advised wrongly at 16.
He wanted to pursue something that he had an interest in. No qualifications necessary start training at 16 but was told by the careers advisor to keep his options open

Then she advised him that he could go in at a higher level if he took a degree.

He did question her throughout but was assured that this was the case added to that his parents really wanted him to get his degree (threatened to throw him out if he didn’t carry on his education at 16.

When he was allowed to decide what he really wanted to do he found because of his age he was too old.

They took on 16 year olds to train. There wasn’t space to take on people who had been through the education system already and then wanted to return.

If you go to college and want to learn a trade or do a BTEC there aren’t 22 year olds learning alongside the 16 year olds
The age range is 16-19 year olds

You can always do an A level. You can always do a degree at any age.
You can’t come back and do other things after a certain age.

Oliversmumsarmy but those are two very different scenarios.
The person you are talking about had a clear career idea and was advised incorrectly.
What bubbles and I are talking about are clients who have no clear career idea. For these people keeping their options open is exactly what they should be doing - if the have the ability then A levels are a good choice.

What if they don’t have the ability?

@SueEllenMishke I completely agree, it was a total waste of time and they gave us no more help than we could have goggled ourselves in less time.

What if they don’t have the ability?
Then you look at the options available to them - some of these can still be relatively generic and fit into the 'keeping options open ' category. It is not a good idea to force someone into making a career decision before they are ready. Apart from anything else it's unethical!

About as much use as a bicycle to a snake.

About as much use as a bicycle to a snake

Thanks for dismissing an entire profession ...........

SueEllenMishke

The problem is that a lot of careers advisors push the academic, keep your options open route even if you know what you want to do and there are ways into the industry/career without going through the university route.

Dd works 2 completely different jobs where if you look up on line it says you definitely need a degree to do them.

A good, well qualified careers adviser will not just push the academic route. It's not client centered, ethical or impartial.

But remember not everyone offering career guidance in schools is qualified. Schools do have a tendency to push university and their own 6th form. This is why impartial advice from a qualified adviser is important and another reason schools can be reluctant to offer it.

I do think there has to be some personal responsibility for making decisions and researching though. No professional can get every scenario right every time. In some ways it is unfortunate that work doesn’t train in quite the same way as it used to. However there are hundreds of apprenticeships now. I’m also not happy about lazy employers saying they need degree standard employees when they patently don’t and it’s mainly because they don’t want the bother of training young people. I think if you were not great at some subjects years ago, allowances were made if you ticked other boxes. I don’t have maths O level (yes, it’s shameful) but I have managed to get a distinction on vocational courses and am Chartered in my chosen profession so lack of maths didn’t stop me doing anything. It would now I have no doubt. Even getting a job in the first place of onto a college course.

I do think there has to be some personal responsibility for making decisions and researching though
Absolutely - a key aspect of careers education is teaching career management skills which includes research skills. There can be some issues with careers information - is it reliable, up to date etc so part of this skill is being able to understand that.
There is also some really interesting research on how different groups of people use careers information and the type of information that is most effective. Some groups ( specifically those who are from lower socio-economic groups and/or hold lower level qualifications) can be suspicious of 'official' information but react better to information presented verbally or that is more informal - so things like employer visits and mentoring can be invaluable to these groups.

I don't think we have careers advisors at our uni. We have employability advisors and they're brilliant. The students get so much out of working with them around support for applying for jobs etc.

I'm an occupational therapist and most people have never heard of us or know the breadth of the work we do. However, there's definitely been an increase in the number of people at interview for HE saying that their careers advisor told them about OT, so they're clearly doing a great job of introducing people to the best job in the world.

Employability advisers are just another name of careers adviser..... employability is the term commonly used in university rather than careers.

I'm really pleased you had a positive experience - careers work in HE can be really exciting.

I meant to say I'm pleased students at your uni have a positive experience 😊

I wonder what is going to happen to all those children and young people who don’t have the required GCSEs

You can’t qualify for anything.
Can’t get a decent job
Can’t go to college apart from doing a Level 1 course.
Ds tried a Level 1 course and finished a terms work for one of the lessons in one afternoon.

Dp is a qualified professional but didn’t pass his English O level

Today he wouldn’t be able to do anything other than minimum wage jobs

Do you mean in normal circumstances or this year?
In normal circumstances young people are required to study English and maths GCSEs or equivalent until they are legally allowed to leave education. So you have classes of college students resitting their English and Maths GCSEs for example....

This year is going to be strange. The sector is working hard on a plan to support students leaving education this year and those at key transition points - such as GCSE, A levels and university. Those who were due to sit exams this summer can sit them next summer if they aren't happy with the results allocated to them.

Careers advisers are trained to deal with individuals. They will offer person centred guidance to each client and help them understand the options available to them and their circumstances. What more can they do?

Oh and lots of jobs and courses will look at adults differently to school leavers - they will look at experience as well as qualifications.

I take students every year with barely any qualifications to their name. They often have lots of experience which counts and they have either done an access type course or sat a test with me so I can make sure they can cope with the course.

When we were looking for Ds for September 2018 there was only one college that didn’t have any restrictions on English and Maths.
That changed last year

You can only resit your English and Maths GCSEs alongside a Level 1or year 1 course. Once you have passed the level 1 course you can’t go onto Level 2 if you don’t have the required GCSEs so you have to leave.

Ds had completed his Level 2 course by the mid March so there is going to be students who had completed and passed their level 1 course but won’t pass the required GCSEs and finding they can’t retake because they have to leave as you can’t take a course you have passed again.

Technically you are legally allowed to leave education at 16.

If you mean young people have to stay on till they are 18 then there is a loop hole as I pointed out above.

If you pass your course but not English or maths then you can’t stay in education.

All of these issues you are talking about can't be blamed on careers advisers. These are government decisions.

If GCSEs aren't an option then an equivalent should be offered in such as key skills. However, this can vary geographically. Again, this isn't something within the control of careers advisers.

Colleges, universities, apprenticeships and jobs have to have entry requirements. Yes this does restrict some people but what is the alternative? How do you measure the suitability of an applicant?

Saying you have to stay in education or training is all very good but then the restrictions make it for those that actually pass their course but fail a gcse impossible to comply.

I wish someone would have told ds to purposely fail the course each year till he passed his GCSE.

Nobody is going to tell a person to fail a course.

We did look at different colleges around the country. Ds was quite prepared to move out into rented to a different town for a few days each week but we couldn’t find anywhere that didn’t need an English GCSE