What do people think of Careers Advisors?

[Somethingkindaoooo]

So, for people who work in education... what are your thoughts?
I work in a few places atm, so secondary, college level, and adult work.
I generally love my job. I have many many years of experience, and I believe I do help people.
But dealing with academic staff is sometimes so challenging. I get spoken down to constantly. People don't seem to understand the role , so when I do my actual job, people often get a bit shirty.
So, I'm curious- do academic staff value careers advisors at all?

Oh lovely.....a careers adviser bashing thread. This profession is one of THE most underrated, misunderstood professions in the education sector. Particularly if you work in schools.

There are a few issues:
People don't understand what careers advisers do. A careers adviser is not there to tell you what to do. They are there to help you understand your skills, interests and abilities as well as assisting you to develop career management skills - they will not tell you what job to do. This is a two way process. If the client doesn't engage and put the work in then it's useless.

The schools sector has been well and truly screwed over by previous governments ( Connexions and the 2011 education act decimated and devalued the profession)

Unfortunately it's not a charted profession so anyone can call themselves a careers adviser.....and do. You should use qualified professionals - ideally to a level 6 or above.

Working in a university is a different ball game altogether. Better pay and lots more respect.

Things schools are improving though. The introduction of the career leader role means the world of career guidance has been brought to the attention of senior leaders in schools and they're finally understanding that for it to work well you need qualified staff and funding.

Another issue is that a well qualified, experienced careers adviser doesn't come cheap - and nor should they. However, schools want cheap so sometimes end up with unqualified advisers or those with level 2 or 4.
The government recommend a minimum level 6 with level 7 ( masters level) set as a gold standard. But I don't know many level 7 advisers who would work in a school for £19k ( which is what one school in my area was paying) when they can earn £35k plus at a university.

This profession is one of THE most underrated, misunderstood professions in the education sector.

I didn’t even know career guidance WAS counted as a profession .

I'd say it's good at my university. Advisors offer to read a job spec and see how it matches against your CV and cover letter. Very helpful if you dont have anyone else to do it.

Theres also lots of resources online on the university career website. From CV templates to conprehensive career information pages. All in one place, makes it easier to those seeking any kind of career help/advice.

Definitely @SueEllenMishke !
I said earlier in the thread that it's a professional where to be properly qualified, a post graduate qualification is required, plus a year's in work training.
It's about equipping people with the skills they need to navigate the changing employment landscape.
The profession in England has been totalled fucked over by successive governments. We're lucky in Scotland that our government sees the value of a properly thought out careers advice, information and guidance programme.

Following the Gatsby Benchmarks it will be a requirement of all schools and colleges to ensure all students have 'access' to a level 6 qualified CIAG advisor in their time at school.

Quality appointments should take around 45 minutes and teachers should of already had conversations with students who have no clue and referred them to websites such as Eclips etc to research before seeing the career advisor.

Teachers don't seem to understand the role or managers... it's a very underaged job!

I don't know much about them, but I have come across a couple of them who are really not up to date with rapidly changing career models and jobs.

@rivergreen being a careers adviser isn't about knowing about every career or job. That's careers information not advice or guidance.

It's about about working with individuals and groups on career management skills. So when you signpost to information sources they know how to interpret that information and what it means for them. Careers advisers need to be aware of the various influences on career related decisions - the subject is a mix of sociology, psychology, politics, economics, education and counselling.
I have an MA in Career Guidance and a PhD in a careers related subject. Not once did I need to know everything about every career going.
I need to know about the labour market - areas of growth and decline and skills but that's more bigger picture stuff rather than the ins and outs of a career in accounting.

redlocks it 100% is a profession.
A good adviser will hold a professional qualification which has been awarded by the Career Development Institute ( our professional body) and should be on the professional register.

I worked in admissions in a college. Our IAG and Careers were terrible and mostly was pushed back to us. The advice seemed to be I think you should go to uni or I think you should get a job but not much more.
If you do it right it's brilliant but ours just pushed crap onto us and kept the ones they knew would be an easy fix.

You're right weebarra it's a very different picture in Scotland.
In England, the introduction of Connexions followed by the coalition governments education act well and truly fucked careers work in England.

I wasn’t disagreeing with you-I just didn’t know. I think they have a TA doing it at my DC’s school.

I suppose it’s like many things-the government want to save money so choose the cheaper option. Heads could choose an experienced teacher on UPS3 which would cost £40k or they could have an NQT or an unqualified teacher. Their budgets often force them to go for the cheap option and they don’t really think about the long term impact.

A careers adviser is not there to tell you what to do. They are there to help you understand your skills, interests and abilities as well as assisting you to develop career management skills - they will not tell you what job to do. This is a two way process. If the client doesn't engage and put the work in then it's useless

Ds knew exactly what his skills interests and abilities were. What he didn’t know was exactly what he should do with those skills interests and abilities and it looks like careers advisors aren’t there to tell him.

That I think is the issue.

As a careers advisor I would have thought the job would entail advising people on which jobs matched their skill set and finding out which jobs would suit them.
As well as advising them on the different ways that you could get into the industry.

Ds really didn’t want to work indoors in a 9-5 job. He quite liked the idea of using his hands rather than some job that involved a lot of writing, equally he has always done a particular ECA that he enjoys. That is as far as he would have got it seems if he had seen a careers advisor.

redlocks the school should be ensuring that pupils have the opportunity to have a one to one interview with an appropriately qualified adviser. It's a statutory requirement now. An unqualified TA should not be offering career guidance interviews.

Careers now features in the Ofsted inspection schedule and all schools and colleges have a statutory requirement to meet the Gatsby Benchmarks.

However, I know that for some schools this is taking time. If their careers provision was non existent for years that can't be rectified overnight.

@SueEllenMishke Thanks for your response. It sounds like it could be an interesting career.

But in that case, it seems my careers advisor was even more rubbish than I thought! She did none of the things you mention.

I don't think she should have known the details about every career path, but when I had a question about mine, info about where to find the answer would have been useful, and I think what you response suggests that's what she should have done.

Luckily I found my answer out before it was too late and corrected my alevel choices and only had to catch up about 6 weeks of work. But if I had followed my careers advisor's (made up) advice then I definitely would not be able to have the career I wanted.

She couldn't really be arsed. And I am most definitely bashing her, not career's advisors generally. Indeed I tried to seek some out later in life, but couldn't find it. You sound good at your job and I wish I had had your insight when I needed it.

On that note, how do people access careers advice as an adult? Is it only attached to the job centre? Or do people pay privately?

There is always going to be a problem when the clients think the service is there to deliver something concrete and meet their expectations but if that differs from what the service provider can provide, its perceived as useless. It’s a mismatch. Therefore the careers advisers should explain what they do and engage parents as well. It might be too non specific for some dc to grasp.

It’s a bit like someone not understanding the difference between professional engineers and “working in engineering”. The first are Chartered or incorporated engineers and other people in engineering could work a machine that produces widgets. If we are not enquiring about work, qualifications and what various levels of professionalism entail, we remain ill informed and not able to guide children at all.

All a bit pointless then from what most people here say :(

oliversmumsarmy a careers adviser can help an individual make sense of those skills and can help them discover how that translates into a career path but they won't tell them what job to do. A good careers adviser is client centered not directive.

There's a difference between saying ' you've said you like working with people so shall we look at careers which are focused on this?' and then entering into a discussion about what jobs this might involve with the help of online resources

And

'you've said you like working with people so have you thought about being a teacher?'

The second example is not good practice. They are not there to tell people what to do.

They are there to challenge and inject realism though. .... but this is another criticism levelled at the profession. So when you get a young person coming to you to say they want to be a professional actor one element of the discussion should centre around the competitive nature of the career and and back up plans as well as helping the client work out the appropriate route into the career. However, they just get told they are being negative 🤷

They can't win.

SueEllen what you said about looking at what skills and interests someone has really interests me. I often wish when I was a teen someone had asked "what do you enjoy doing?" rather than "what do you want to do?". I had no clue what I wanted to 'do' with my life when I was a teen. But now as an adult I realise some of my interests/hobbies etc could of led to something career wise.
A lot of childhood interests get pushed to one side when teens get bogged down in the exam system and skills they once had (ie helping organise events at their scout group) aren't something they consider important to think about because the school system is so focused on exam grades (I am going on gcse experience - obviously Scotland may be different).
The GCSE exams being cancelled this year has led to so many teens not knowing what to do with their time. Everything has all been about 'you learn this because it's on the exam' not 'let's learn/do this because it's interesting'.
Sorry this is a bit rambling. Basically I have never come across any careers advice that actually asks what your interests and skills are. If that is what careers advice is supposed to be then fantastic. But as I said that type of advice I have never come across.

rivergreen
There are definitely some examples of poor practice out there but there are some excellent careers advisers and it's a real shame that a whole sector is often written off as being useless and unnecessary.

As an adult you can access careers advice a few ways.
If you went to uni then lots of universities offer careers advice for life. You can contact your local careers service as they sometimes offer adult services.
You can also phone the national careers service but they don't offer face to face guidance just online and telephone (and the level of qualification isn't guaranteed)
Or you can pay privately but again check qualifications - you ideal want them to have a qualification that is accredited by the CDI.
Hope that helps

bubblesbuddy a good careers adviser will explain the scope and limitations of their role at the start of an interview and check they've been understood. Whether the client listens to this is another story 🤷

The industry has been underfunded and cut back.
I think there are few qualified (L6/7?) in schools because of this.

Now, more than ever, our children need this service. One college advisor said that on the back of C19 she's been inundated with parents seeking advice - for themselves!

I work with a teacher who is not a qualified careers advisor, but he has taken it on and by God, he is making such an impact and difference to those kids.

But from what I can gather, schools need those qualified advisors - it's a lost skillset of professionals.

Another school has no advisor, because of cuts, and that makes me sad that those children are missing out on the fairs, the visits, the partnerships, that the school in a more affluent area are organising.

I have been to some great school careers fairs. It's so different to my own school days 30 years ago.

Me: "I want to be a journalist or a vet."
Advisor: "Have you thought about becoming a secretary?"

Exactlybookmum
Particularly with young people it's far better to talk about what they enjoy doing and what they're good at and helping them see how that could develop into a career idea. It's also fine not to have a clear career idea at 16 and even 18. It's a lot of pressure to ask a 16 year old what they want to do for the rest of their life.

The problems we have though is the education sector is very 'destination' focused and to be undecided is seen as a bad thing but in career guidance terms that's not necessarily true. It's an opportunity to nurture and develop interests and skills while developing career management skills that will help you with career decisions when you're ready.

You're right.....schools won't pay decent salaries so level 7 advisers mainly go into university work.

SueEllenMishke

You need to have some idea what you want to do at 16. No good doing a degree in History then thinking what you would really like to be is an electrician.
In ds’s college if you are starting a f/t course after you turn 19 you have to pay it isn’t free and a university leaver at 21 would end up back with 16 year olds with a debt of £50k for a degree that isn’t necessary and having to find the money for the electrician course for the next few years.