Cleaners hung out to dry - times article

[Itwasntme1]

I have just read an article in the times about people not paying their cleaners.

My very wealthy friend stopped paying his cleaner on day one, this lady has cleaned his house for years. I had just employed a cleaner, she had only come twice, but I am still paying her.

I realise I am taking a risk, she might not come back when lock down is lifted and I have now paid her for more missed sessions than she has cleaned. However morally I would struggle with stopping payments.

Is the times article right, have most people stopped paying their cleaners?

You won't get Government support unless you have 2yrs of accounts showing their "self-employed business" has been making profit for 2+ years.

There will be a lot of people in this position - either because they went SE recently, AND/OR their business is not making profit.

If your getting working tax credits or child tax credits you have to declare it as a business , incidentally my rate is £12 ! Obviously depends where you live , but hey £15 would be nice

I'm sick of this shit about paying cleaners during lockdown.

My cleaner is self employed. So is my husband. She doesn't work, she doesn't get paid. My husband doesn't work, he doesn't get paid.

Now my husband is entitled to some government help if he can't work. Not much, but some. That's because he pays tax and NI. My cleaner may pay tax and NI too. If she does then she can access the same help. If she doesn't then that is the risk that she was taking.

Not everyone who has a cleaner is loaded. I work two jobs. One is on a self employed basis and is public facing, so work has dried up during this time. I haven't been in business for 3 years so can't access financial help and I have an income from my other job so I wouldn't claim even if I could.

@hotcuppatea nearly everyone who has posted saying they are still paying their cleaners have said that it's because they haven't lost any income. No one is calling out people in your situation who are not earning the same themselves.

Makeitgoaway and Noeuf cleaners are different because the relationship is quite personal (they work for a limited number of people, they are someone who comes into your house often when you're out, and you give a key to, and sees the dirt your daily living creates), it's a quite intensive and long term arrangement (every week for three hours say, for years on end not once in a blue moon or once every 6 weeks), and crucially also because virtually all cleaners are on a low income, often too low to have much in the way of savings to see them through. Anyone earning enough to choose to pay themselves in dividends to avoid national insurance and reduce tax can take their chances in a way someone on a very low genuine income cannot.

My cleaner bills us monthly and has all the requisite insurance and tax number, but I know for a fact she would struggle without her income.

Right but the just of the article is poor cleaners, under declaring tax, now can't get help. Or is that ok because you know them really well?

Gist not just

Noeuf no, nobody should underdeclare tax, and I speak as someone living in a country with a tax system which determines that I pay a higher percentage of my total very average income in tax and compulsory state ordained deductions than higher rate tax payers do in the UK.

Everyone should pay tax properly - businesses, individual business owners and directors, and cleaners should all pay tax. We choose an above board cleaner who pays tax deliberately, for a range of reasons. We wouldn't have employed anyone cash in hand. We can claim part of what we pay her (and any independent tradesperson too) against our own tax bill where I live though, which is nice and a very good idea as a scheme for governments to introduce IMO, on many levels...

I don't expect a cleaner to have a buffer to get her through months while waiting for finds from a government scheme, the way I'd expect anyone willing to take the gamble of paying themselves in dividends to hedge their bets against hard times with savings.

I'd also be more forgiving of someone stealing a loaf of bread than fiddling the pension fund, and that is the same mentality which can still feel sorry for cash in hand cleaners but not tax loophole exploiting company directors.

I totally get paying cleaners while waiting for the government help or if they don't earn much (but then wouldn't tax credits or UC be in place)It's the article which seems to be sympathising with tax evasion.

I am going to pay mine after after missing a payment recently( she comes every two weeks). BUT she's paid cash in hand and I don't have her bank details. I very much doubt she's paid tax for the last 3 years on what I pay tbh. She is very busy and sometimes I don't get my full 2 hours if I am not there... same any tradesperson that does not declare all income?

I pay my gardener cash in hand by the monthly session and he is still coming as this work can still be done with social distancing. He does a few jobs in this area and still seems to be working. If he did not turn up then he would not get paid. Simples.

His tax position is his own responsibility and its not for me to enquire into whether or not he can claim from the government. I dont discuss my finances with other people so why should he discuss his affairs with me?

@MilkTwoSugarsThanks it's called being a good person, having empathy and ensuring the community around you survives. I am paying my coffee shop for coffees I don't get. I want that shop to still be there when this all ends.