Cleaners hung out to dry - times article

[Itwasntme1]

I have just read an article in the times about people not paying their cleaners.

My very wealthy friend stopped paying his cleaner on day one, this lady has cleaned his house for years. I had just employed a cleaner, she had only come twice, but I am still paying her.

I realise I am taking a risk, she might not come back when lock down is lifted and I have now paid her for more missed sessions than she has cleaned. However morally I would struggle with stopping payments.

Is the times article right, have most people stopped paying their cleaners?

I’m paying our cleaner, in fact I’ve sent her a little more than usual. I don’t work, on is secure and still earning a salary. We have very few other expenses at the moment and I know most of her clients stopped paying her so she’s up shit creek. I’m in a very fortunate position so feel it’s only fair I help where I can

I'm still paying mine, she comes fortnightly and does an amazing job. I really want her back after this. I ususlly pay cash but sent the last payment by paypal.

But, are people paying music teachers, window cleaners, personal trainers?

Yes - The music lessons have moved to Skype and Facetime although the weeks before Easter when no one was sure how long it was going to last, and lessons were cancelled, I had to decide whether to make a big deal about it, or let it go as I paid in advance.

As the children have been with their various music teachers for quite some time, decided to take the long term view, although have to say it would have been nice for the music teachers to offer a partial refund.

If you want your cleaner back at the end of this and you can afford to pay, even if its 80% then you should pay. If you knowingly pay someone who is not declaring their earnings then you are assisting to defraud the government and contributing towards the lack of nhs funding amongst other things. Bet you all stand out and clap and donated to Captains fundraiser too! Obviously that's a rather simplistic view but it all adds up!

How do you know the money you're paying the agency now is going to your cleaner?

I told the cleaner I was continuing to pay for her, she said 'I know, boss told me'. It's a small local family agency so the cleaner and her boss are related. The rate I pay is slightly above average for what people say they pay their cleaner on here, it's well above NMW for the hours she works but obviously there are overheads as well so I don't know exactly what she gets.

@ilovemydogandMrObama, so basically you dont expect to have to pay for the music lessons that you ahvent had but took the long view for the sake of your dcs instead (whilst thinking the music teacher was a bit cheecky not to give a refund)

That's very different that what people are saying about cleners where it ought to be the norm to pay them during lockdon/holiday/illnesses.

No, I paid and did pay.

The music teacher cancelled several weeks without so much as a discussion.

DD2 (8) was not keen initially on doing Skype, so 2 lessons were missed because of this. The music teacher also teaches DD1, so in total there were about 6 cancelled lessons, so yeah, if the roles were reversed then I would have at least had a discussion about it.

I never said I didn't expect to pay.

Well I take cash only , as I can’t rely on everyone paying on time and as some of you point out it’s just above minimum wage . So Ie 2 hours £24 ! I am registered as self employed and also pay business insurance . I supply most of my cleaning products and use my own hoover , and I don’t charge for cancellations , as I believe others do . I also have to have another job which luckily for me is contracted, because I can’t always rely on the self employed cleaning on its own . So unfortunately I am never going to be a millionaire ! Basically it would be lovely to be paid or even to be offered , but I’m not actually providing a service at the moment and it’s going to be my choice at then of the day whether I return to my clients or not ! At the moment I’m enjoying the sunshine and actually being at home doing my own thing !

I've just read the article. Love the way tax evasion is dressed up as clever accounting.

Honestly I've just read the very well researched (who knows? Apparently) article on the response to the pandemic, turned the page and read this virtuous bollocks that basically poor old cleaners can no longer take cash in hand and not declare it and boo hoo they can't claim the self employed fund as they didn't declare it.

Lots of emotive oh those poor old souls who clean the lav for you. Love to know why it's ok for them to evade tax?

I couldn't access the article - what is status for cleaners in terms of being able to access the 80%?

On the basis that's I'd heard June and I am still earning, I am still paying mine 100%.

For me, it feels like the right thing to do and I have huge trust in her. I want her to come back when she is able to. This is why I am happy to pay for a service I am not receiving. I have an entirely different feeling about other business transactions, but this one is personal. She goes all through my house when I am not even here!

I am confidant she declares everything but don't have sympathy for those in any line of work who haven't and now can't benefit. What goes around comes around.

Ok will summarise.

Bloke owns a cleaning company - not a single person has offered to keep paying even though many cleaners do not qualify for the government's support scheme and have no other income source.

No explanation at this point as to why they don't qualify

Bloke has 200 cleaners on the books. All of these have been abandoned and are now desperate.

*No explanation as to their status - assume he's a broker?
*
One cleaner, named, is being paid by 2 or her 4 clients. She's applied for the self employment scheme and will pay them back if successful.

Then my photo - basically if they've not declared income they can't claim from the scheme to that amount.

Lots of employers won't pay because they are worried about their own income. Bloke who is a director of the Royal institute of philosophy says cleaners are some of the most poorly paid and are not in it together with us because we should all be pulling together and rich people aren't. If they lay someone off they are condemning them to misery.

Another person from a think tank says we are building a less human economy.

We should be relationship based in economy and reward people who clean our underwear drawer.

That's it really

It's funny how directors paying dividends have been treated to the real what you sow rhetoric on here but poor lovely cleaners who've not declared their income should be given lots more cash.

To be fair I think paying until the scheme kicks in. It's just the tolerance for tax evasion that's bewildering.

Another point of view - where I live there are lots of people who do lots of different jobs. Lots of casual work, short-term contracts. A little bit of cleaning, fruit-picking, shop work, factory work, delivery driving, all sorts of miscellaneous work. So the workers are doing the best they can, given the local job market - which is extremely fluctuating. Nothing is secure, or permanent, regular or reliable. You work when you can, as best you can.

They don't work permanently for any one employer. Their cleaning might be temporary self-employment. Nothing long-term. It is all bits and pieces of work.

These people do not have 2yrs of accounts showing their "self-employed business" has been making profit for 2+ years. These people are NOT ELIGIBLE for the 80% government help.

They are the forgotten.

If cleaners are self employed and declaring income properly, won't they get the government support?

Other employers aren't paying staff who aren't working, the government are under the furlough scheme.

You're not still paying for other services you aren't able use, restaurants, cinema, gym, hairdresser?

I don't have a cleaner btw but I'm interested in why they are different.

Yes they will , I’ve had an email from Hmrc, and if I qualify I can claim ,but obviously not yet the same as any other business . To be honest anything is better than nothing.

The personal tax allowance in the UK is £12,500, therefore cleaners need to be earning more than £1,000 per month to be eligible to pay tax.

I'm sure that some earn more than this but I imagine many don't - and those that do will hardly be in the billionaire-swindler category, will they.

@Makeitgoaway

In my case, my cleaner has been with me for more than 7 years, has come a minimum of twice a week, religiously.

She will do extra for me if I'm ill, she's come round to let the children in when they've forgotten their key, she's put shopping away before we've got back from holiday, and much much more.

I'm still being paid as I work from home. There is no way I wouldn't pay her now. If i could no longer afford it, that would be a different matter.

A lot of people have similar relationships with their cleaners - hence there is a bond their that is over and above a financial transaction.

The personal tax allowance in the UK is £12,500, therefore cleaners need to be earning more than £1,000 per month to be eligible to pay tax.

I thought you had to pay the low rate of NI if you had a profit of over £6475 a year. I have no idea but does that not require a tax return even if you didn't actually need to pay any tax?

Wobbly all over , yes your quite correct I do indeed pay the low rate of national insurance and yes a tax return ,

hotdog thanks for confirming.

I would have thought that even low earning cleaners would want to pay their NI to get credits towards the state pension.

That's just over 16 hours a week at £15 an hour to meet the personal tax allowance. No reason not to declare it if they don't meet the threshold. Unless they are doing it on top of benefits or other work?

What I mean is, the only reason not to declare is if you need to pay tax, surely?

I can't afford to pay as my income has halved