How would you handle this work situation?

[ElephantsFoot]

Firstly, I know there's much bigger and pressing issues at the moment and I know my work doesn't involve marks from PPE or burns behind my ears from face masks... those who's work does involve that, you're truly inspirational and I'm sorry if my post comes across as selfish but I'm so anxious.

I started a new job in November (a standalone HR role) which is in a shared office of 5 others who are like family and have been there for at least six years. They all know each other out of work, they're close friends, they've never had to share their office with a newbie before and they seem to have their backs up about me. We have no common interests and I'm 24, they're all 50+ and are quite snippy with me and have been since I first joined. I know she isn't a factor however I'm trying to paint a picture that we have literally nothing to talk about. I can't engage in any conversation outside of work. I raised it with my manager at the time (who is also friends with my colleagues out of work, very well off and is related somehow to the accountant). My background is very modern HR, all about engagement and helping strive towards business objectives but I'm also very junior still. I took this standalone role to gain more experience.

The accountant is very short with me, disregards anything I say, talks over me and snaps at me. On Thursday, she ended up screaming at me via video call. There's definitely a communication issue between us, I find her very confusing and her terminology very dated. It takes me a while to understand what her actual point is.

I've raised it with my manager a few weeks after I started and he laid into me. He's also very abrupt and said it's up to me to make the relationship work with them. I think it's a two way thing and colleagues should be welcoming and open to new people... ive never had team work issues before and when I've had personality reports done, they all came back to say I'm a real team player so I'm all confused.

I feel sick that I have to face her tomorrow, I don't want another conversation where she shouts... I can't raise it with my manager because he's pretty useless (not had a single review and he's never once asked how I'm finding the role) but I have a conversation that I know she'll talk over, shout about and become hostile around...

I know I'm in HR and this sort of thing is what I'm good at but I can't see the wood through the trees at the moment and I'm dreading it.

What a horrible situation. You poor thing. You have video evidence of this person screaming at you?

Personally I would be thinking that bunch will be there for another 10-15 years, so I would move on myself as soon as I could.

Can you put as much as possible in writing?

She was screaming at me saying "IM NOT BEING FUNNY!!" Even my other half poked his head in and whispered are you ok?

I could do but I really want to try and resolve it informally and my manager is truly useless, he even admits this team are difficult. He wants improvements making in HR throughout the whole business and that's basically my role. I raised it informally with him and he said "it's up to you to make this work" erm... no it's a two way issue and both sides need to work together.

I'm making a lot of improvements technically and they're very against change and anything technical, which creates a barrier already

No video evidence but it was a video call where she was shouting...

Awful.

Find a new job? Not easy, I know

Record her and raise a formal grievance with HR, or go back to the senior manager and show him the footage and say it will be in the hands of an employment lawyer if it isn't dealt with internally.

Could you send a message pre meeting, with your manager CCd in, stating that in the incident of any shouting or inappropriate behaviour, as seen in prior meeting, you will immediately leave the call and report to HR?

It sounds like they are trying to devalue your role, OP. That's their problem though, not yours. You know what you'd advise other colleagues to do in this situation - implement it for yourself.x.

@Coffeethrowtrampbitch the op is HR!

If I were you I’d have my phone on record the next time you’re on a video call with her. I’ve worked in both HR and an environment where the rest of the team had worked together for years and made my life incredibly difficult for a long time. I find in HR, you have nowhere to go when you have an issue! No real advice other than stay strong and stand up for yourself. Show them you’re not a pushover, maybe they will back off a bit. It’s what I had to do in the end and thankfully it worked and they finally realised I wasn’t the devil

Don't raise an issue over the unfriendliness, raise a grievance over anyone shouting at you. That is fully not ok.

Look for another job.

If the management want improvements throughout the entire business in the context of engagement and systems I'd have thought the way to do it would be to hire somebody able to evidence having done it in other organisations for at least 10-15 years.

Sorry OP but standalone roles are hard work in HR as your it and you are the fixer, this will be particularly tough when you don't have much experience also.

Firstly, you deal with confidential issues so shouldn't really be in a shared office. Is that something you could request?

Second of all, if they are reluctant to change then the fact of you being there will be a real threat to them as I'm assuming they haven't had HR before? In which case refresh yourself on change management and engaging others in the process.

If my assumptions are correct, then it's nothing personal but it is something that all HR folk come up against at one point or another in their career so see winning them over as part of your mission. If you get them to buy in to at least some of what you are doing and gain their respect, then it'll be a big achievement and make life much easier.

It's tough... But if they didn't have these issues they wouldn't have hired you in the first place. If it ain't broke, don't fix it sort of thing!

Good luck.

Also you may get more constructive feedback on specifics if you post in the CIPD forums rather than here

Small teams are very concentrated and behavioural traits are magnified.

It sounds like they are an 'us' and you are a 'them'. They've othered you. You do have options...
You can should them as much as you like but only they can change their behaviour, you cant wish it.

Your options are develop your skills (coaching), mediation or look for another job.

I'd agree you will get good advice if you repost this on the CIPD forum - which isn't to say you won't also get good advice here, but there will be plenty of people on the CIPD website who have lots of experience in standalone HR roles.

Your boss acknowledges the team is difficult.
You can see the dynamic is unhealthy.
They probably see your arrival as a challenge to the status quo.

There are a number of ways to handle this but it's going to be a long game. As your manager isn't any use, if you decide to stay in this role I would get yourself an external mentor or coach as a priority. That's sensible for anyone delivering standalone HR, but especially when you lack line manager support.

I would try not to waste time thinking about how they "should" be behaving. That's not what's happening. Instead, think about WHY are they acting in this way? A person resorting to shouting is running out of professional options - I wonder what has caused that? You may be able to start to win them over one by one, by delivering small changes that actually improve things for them. You'll need to get inside their heads, and understand their jobs, to figure out what they need if they won't tell you. It won't be easy.

While this doesn't sound like a healthy place for you to stay in long-term, you will probably learn a lot about workplace dynamics while you're there! It's not personal - they would do the same to anyone who arrived in their midst - but that doesn't make it right, or easy.

(In terms of tomorrow's call, perhaps practice some bridging phrases that will keep you calm during the call and slow down the pace - things like "I'll need some time to look into that" " I want to make sure I give you the most helpful answer; when do you need this information?" and "could I just confirm I've understood what you need here etc etc")

The easy option would be to look for another role but there's not a lot of roles out there at the moment given the current climate... I agree they'll all be there for the next 15 years.

I do have a "mentor" but she's close friends with my manager but I've raised the issue a few times with her and asking for advice on how to manage it. I don't get much constructive feedback or help... I can't tell my boss this because he's good friends with her and again, he's useless with people management!

@Mmsnet101 your post is helpful, thank you. They've never had HR before and I've just implemented a HR system for the business, they're so difficult about it (everyone else is really on board) but they're not the best technologically and I know it worries them. The argument on Thursday was around this because she wasn't using the system properly and I asked her to share her screen (were WFH) and she just wouldn't, she kept talking over me and shouting and getting irate.

@MutteringDarkly I'll post on CIPD later. I was worried about this being a stupid issue and as a HR professional I should know how to resolve it.

Your post is great thank you for taking the time to respond. I've used the lines "ok, let's calm down and get to the root of the problem" and "ok, let's get it fixed for you" but she just shouts and she explains things really badly...

I have anxious belly ache today!

which is in a shared office of 5 others who are like family and have been there for at least six years. They all know each other out of work, they're close friends, they've never had to share their office with a newbie before and they seem to have their backs up about me.

I've worked somewhere like that when I was quite young. It was awful. They were like their own little clique of Queen Bees and there was no way round it. I even invited them to a party at my home and they deliberately made a mess that would be difficult to clean up after.

I left that job in the end. As far as I know (or care), they are still stagnating there.

@buzzshitbagbobbly sounds like my office! They all meet up with each other on the weekend to play bowls and visit each other's parents... every time I make a comment about something that isn't to do with work, it turns into "oh X do you remember when we did that about 10 years ago?" Then it turns into inside jokes etc and I just can't get involved.

It's actually really difficult and I'm constantly thinking is it me? I called my old manager and she said one of my best features is that I can communicate well and really bring teams together. Wellllllll except this one...

It's actually really difficult and I'm constantly thinking is it me?

It absolutely is not you. I sympathise totally, and know how you feel.

I would try and ride this out using some of the excellent advice already given; while jobhunting on the side as a secret "fuck you!" to them. Things won't always be like this, jobs will start being advertised and you can be ready to pounce. If you know it's only for a finite time, you can bear it.

Unless you have the financial option available, of jacking it in with nothing to go to?

@ElephantsFoot, it sounds like a lot of it is coming from fear. Fear of change, fear of not knowing how to use the new system and not wanting to ask... Is there a really simple user guidance doc for the new system? Writing out basic step by step user instructions just for their roles that they can refer to would maybe help. Also, they don't want to have to ask you for help as it makes them look weak. Having a reference doc takes that neutral. It sounds like your colleague doesn't know how to share her screen in the first place, let alone get to grips with a new system.

It’s not you.

That said look for another job- it won’t change.

In the meantime practice the following phrase “if you continue to raise your voice I will terminate this call”. If she raises her voices say it calmly and then terminate the call if she raises her voice.

Then raise a grievance with your manager - he has to deal with it.

I'm 50 and work in HR as well. I have had awful experiences though so it's not down to age. I think some people are afraid that others will like you. That is literally their fear. It's not even personal. They don't dislike you. They just realise that if others like you and begin to view you as competent and likeable, then the staid dynamic around them they enjoy could be jeopardised. I had a woman half my age try to ice me out (socially) a couple of years ago. So unnecessary. I wasn't trying to follow her around at the weekend.

Having been through this, a couple of times :-( I suggest shining a light on it. Giving bitches the benefit of the doubt sends the message that you're weak and will tolerate bullshit.

I look back and wish I'd said something like ''I feel like you're so warm and friendly to everybody else but so intentionally cold to me. Is that your intention??''.

But I wasn't brave enough, twice, so in a job I left, a group of women my own age froze me out and also, professionally, gave every single thing I did the most negative interpretation possible instead of the positive one. They fired me thank God although it was devastating at the time.

In my current job, this bitch of a woman (half my age, so this is not always older women = bitches, young women lovely) froze me out. She left thankfully. So the situation resolved itself, but I'm aware that it didn't get resolved because I handled it fantastically which bothers me.

Definitely recommend the ''shining a light on the behavior'' technique. do it really calmly. It puts them on notice. It might make things MORE awkward and tense for 72 hours but in the long run it makes things better. I wish I'd known this.

I wouldn't look for another job.

I have had two jobs and in both of them, a hesitancy to call out bad behavior really early on has led to sharks tasting blood.

There's literally no point job hunting immediately. Learn to identify the point at which a boundary has been overstepped. That point at which a person who is never bullied/talk over/ignored/disrespected would speak up and say ''Are you ok there, you tone is harsh''. Or ''are you angry, you seem angry. I have done my job and I have done my best and you seem angry''.

Shine a light back on the bad behavior in the first instance. I'm still trying to get this right. Because 95% of people I work with are lovely and this 'Shield' isn't usually necessary. And I've relaxed and put my shield down and neglected to fortify it over the years. But as I get older I have found that wherever I go, wherever I go, there will be ONE bitch who dislikes me for NO effing reason!

I'm going to guess she didn't know how to share her screen and her embarrassment was covered up by hostility. Not everyone feels OK admitting what they don't know. This also tells you something important about the wider culture - is it felt by others that they can't admit to not knowing things? There's a real opportunity to use that when you are making your longer-term plans to improve things.

Try your local CIPD group for a mentor, there are often people willing to do this

I’m going to go against the grain here and say that it could be your approach that needs to change , these people will have been through lots of change over their careers and it gets exhausting. You’re young , enthusiastic and want to change things up again - you might get better results taking things slower and approaching people sideways on rather than going all in to drive change quickly. Build the relationship by listening and inviting their input , you can do this and still get things done your way but it’s a skill to make people think they’re making the decisions.

Your previous employment doesn’t matter really , the team there may have been younger , more welcome to change etc so life was easier for you.

All that being said no one has the right to shout at you , people are under a lot of extra pressure at the moment but in that situation I would state that’s you’re not happy with the way they are speaking to you and cut the communication