When one friend in a group dislikes you

[Tinyteddy]

I'm part of a group of 5 friends, all of whom have known each other for 10+ years from our university days. I consider the other 4 to be of my closest friends and we have strong one-on-one friendships, however there is one person in the group who I'm fairly sure dislikes me. I'm not overly fond of her either but I do my best not to show it and try to be as supportive and friendly as I can be in group settings.

Because we live some distance apart a lot of our communication is through a WhatsApp group and I've noticed whenever I say anything this person ignores me or pretends I haven't said anything. It's similar when we get together in person, I feel she (whether consciously or unconsciously) leaves me out of conversations, interrupts me when I speak or just doesn't listen and makes it quite obvious she's not interested in what I have to say by checking her phone. She has quite a loud, forceful personality whereas I'm more quiet and reserved and I've often felt intimidated in her presence.

The upshot of this is that despite the fact that I get on really well with the other people in the group, I often leave get-togethers feeling quite deflated and I rarely say anything in the WhatsApp group now. I'm sure the others have noticed the dynamic between us but no one's ever said anything. I get the sense that others in the group also have found her a bit difficult at times but for a group of supposed best friends this dynamic makes me feel really uncomfortable.

Has anyone ever experienced this? Part of me thinks I should opt out of the group stuff but I also feel a bit sad that I'm allowing this one person to make me feel this way when I get on so well with the others.

I had this at school, one in the group of friends actively disliked me and used to say cutting things all the time and pass them off as jokes. This continued into my twenties and everyone else in the group used to defend her, saying she was just joking and was the nicest girl really. I always thought she was right to dislike me as had low self esteem anyway.

As others have said it was bullying. I have finally, at the age of 37, cut that whole group of friends out of my life. They are not friends if they are ok with you being uncomfortable. I don’t expect you to listen to this advice as it took me so long to take action! But making a clean break has improved my mental health massively

I agree the others in the group will know. There's one in my group of friends who doesn't like the other, will pull her up on all sorts of things that of another friend did they wouldn't say anything about. Had a group video call yesterday and all friends laughing about something and she only pulled one up on it, the one who she doesn't like. She pretends to like her, but it's blatant she doesn't.

In my experience if you talk to other group members about it they’ll just shrug and say ‘you know what she’s like’. Some people spend years building up this aura around themselves. In the same way a domestic abuser doesn’t start by punching their partner, they push push push the boundaries over several years (decades in this case!)

Of course no one would abandon her after the time she was so incredibly rude to a waiter in 2014- we all remember she was arguably far worse to a taxi driver NYE 2009 and we didn’t say anything then...

I just started a thread about the psychology of wendying and the people on the thread so far don't get it. I guess people think I'm too sensitive. I'm not sensitive. I'm not seeking her approval! She is bullying me!

OP - I am in a similar position with a one of a group of friends on a WhatsApp - I've actually put the group on mute this morning and am going to take some time away as I'm so sick of it, but not quite in the right place to leave the group.

Hi teddy,

I had a similar thing with a group of university friends I had. It was a long time ago, but from what I remember, it started off as you describe your situation.

Eventually- and this took me years- i eventually took the decision to leave the group. I did this suddenly as a reaction to a specific incident, but had been unhappy within the group for many years.

What I can now see, with the benefit of hindsight is that being part of such a negative dynamic was hugely damaging to me and it took me a very long time to recover from the impact of these “friends” behaviour towards me. I agree with the op, who describes this as bullying behaviour. I wish I had been more decisive and taken action much sooner.

I think you should take action to protect yourself. Don’t put much faith in the rest of the group. Sometimes “the group” can become the damaging entity. You sound like a lovely person who deserves friends who value you!

I've even been wendied on here! Long standing thread, along someone came from nowhere... How do you tell anyone that stuff? It makes you sound mad!

It is bullying. They know exactly what they're doing and they do it intentionally.

@springydaff, it's interesting that the general response to this is that the woman reporting it is 'mad'.

Afterall, it's happened to so many of us!

But, I think it only happens to a certain type of person. I have good, strong relationships on a 1:1

A friend of mine who is really confident, I don't think it has ever happened to her. I don't think anybody would ever have tried that bullshit on her!

So some of us get this and some of us don't.

I don't agree! I present as very together and socially strong, outspoken, no flies on me type..

BUT I've been hideously bullied in the past. These types pick that up.

Narcissists? I hate to bandy that overused word about but there's a certain type who will relish playing on vulnerabilities.

Thanks for the interesting observations everyone, also that Russian proverb is excellent - will be keeping that one for usage sometime!

Seems like it's not an uncommon phenomenon unfortunately. To answer a couple of posts upthread, I do tend to have contact with the other friends mainly outside of the group setting and that's why I've been able to develop close friendships with all of them. It's the group stuff I've come to dread because I just know this one 'friend' is going to sideline me and dominate. As a PP said if I ever mention it to the other friends they'll just say it's her way, it's nothing personal etc. It does feel like she perceives me as a bit of an easy target as the other women in the group are all quite strong personalities too.

@tinyteddy, I think that's what these types envy, your ability to connect, an authentic self, values

@springydaff, which bit don't you agree with? I think we agree! Not that we can't disagree!

I also feel my life is sewn up. I know what I enjoy doing and I find time for it. I've quietened those critical inner voices over time, I'm content, I have close friendships, a house that's a home, a job I like, an optimistic mindset, but I don't have the core of steel /inner confidence that my friend who I used as an example has. Her parents were like ''you can do it! go build that! make that! try your best! it's your creation, do it how you see fit!'' where mine were like ''smile, be nice, give away half of what you have, shshs, don't have needs, later''

And I've worked through that and my life is good and I'm confident.
90% of people couldn't tell the difference between the friend I've used as an example and me. But clearly, there is a type that detects some sort of chink.

@Tinyteddy if it gets to the point where you feel you are so close to being edged out, there is one 'strategy' that I found online.

It's basically shining a light on their behavior.

It's risky though of course because these things never go according to plan! But the theory is that you'd say ''Ice Queen, I feel like you're so warm to the others but you ignore me. I feel like a ghost. Is this your intention?''.

She will either completely ignore the question and change the subject which proves you're not crazy. If that happens, leave it. Her lack of response proves you have at the very least, a point.

Or she will totally deny it. ''omg how can you say that ? how can you think that?'' if she does that, quickly accept her denial. ie ''I'm so glad that's not your intention''. Obviously you both know it's bullshit but it puts her on notice that maybe others will notice that she's been stonewalling you and also that maybe you're not quite as confrontation averse as she thought.

Or if she responds with I didn't like the way you made that speech that I should have made, say nothing I did was ever done with the intention of hurting you.

I'm too chicken to use these tactics YET, because it's a group of relatives and I haven't got to that do or die point yet.

I like @CollaborativeBeeks strategy. I’m a bit horrified that nobody else in the group bollocks her. I don’t accept that ‘Oh, it’s just how she is’. That is just minimising something they clearly see happening but, what, they’re too scared of tackling her because then she might turn on them? She’s a massive bully!

Time after time, I’ve felt that I’m in your position, OP. I’ve got a very small circle of friends and I’m not interested in expanding it. I won’t tolerate anyone being a twat to me.

I would say call her out on it, in the group, but you need to be prepared to be ostracised by them all. I’d say, though, that they’re really not worth your friendship given they are either too scared of her or can’t be bothered to call her out on her shit.

When all of this distancing is over, I may go to my cousin's house. With a bottle of wine, but I will say I want to talk. On the doorstep if she won't invite me in. I will just peacefully non-confrontationally put it to her that there was no reason for what she has been doing to me. By that point, I"ll have nothing to lose. I am not able to post in that group anymore anyway.

She feels stronger by making you weaker. If you feel you can't confide in the others without them dismissing what you're saying, then they aren't your friends, either.

You may be misjudging the friend who gave you a role at her wedding but didn't give the bully a role. Would it be worth talking to her?

I don’t see ‘bullying’ here, OP. I see two people who don’t like one another but are forced into proximity by a group they both want to stay part of because they both like the other people. One person (the one who has good one-on-one relationships with the other three but seems to be less confident in the group) is basically polite to the one she doesn’t like, the other (who is a louder voice in the group but may not have strong individual friendships with the others) doesn’t disguise her lack of interest in the first. The other three don't get involved.

OP, it sounds as if everyone else is happy enough with the dynamic so if you want to change things, it sounds as if it needs to be you who changes approach. Being polite to the other woman hasn’t worked the way you want it to, if it was intended to make her be polite in return. Your strong relationships with the other three as individuals don’t seem to help you feel secure in group situations, and they either don’t notice or don’t want to act on the dynamic. If all you want is not to be interrupted by the one you don’t like, I suppose you can work on assertive techniques for dealing with that...?

I really don't think you've experienced this, Pond, to write what you have.

Totally agree with you, @springydaff.

It doesn't matter if you see bullying here or not pond. It's established that intentionally ignoring one person while being extremely friendly to all of the others is bullying. It's called relational aggression. Trying to control the social dynamic around you.

this explains it

So only someone who (a) has experienced this and (b) has experienced it as bullying gets to comment?

I sympathise with the OP it is clearly making her unhappy and taking away her pleasure in a longstanding friendship group but nothing is going to change unless she changes her own behaviour. And that stands whether you regard it as bullying or two people with a mutual dislike they deal with differently, because no one else seems to be discontent with the status quo. If the OP is unwilling as she has suggested upthread to challenge the other woman directly about her behaviour as a totality, then she has option of dealing with the interruptions etc individually as they happen.

So only someone who (a) has experienced this and (b) has experienced it as bullying gets to comment?

Effectively, yes.

You don't understand this, Pond.

I have to agree with that. When you're on the receiving end of this, there is no doubt.

You have to trust the OPs. In this case, the friendship group has been ongoing for ten years. After then years, you have ruled out misunderstandings, bad hair days, paranoia........

My Mum does that thing though. When I was young and I was telling her that the same person had been awful to me, she responded with ''you're imagining it''. Why!? Are there no bullies?! Does bullying not happen? Do we not have a word for it?! Why on earth my mother saw fit to gaslight me for a decade telling me I was paranoid and imagining it, I don't know. But it made me lose a bit of respect for her. Eventually I understood that I was a tool in her people pleasing and it would have been very inconvenient for her if there'd been a clash between her siblings over it.

It involves a malignant personality, not the average run of the mill relating.

Normal rules don't apply.

It's really interesting to hear people's insights. I have spent quite a bit of time questioning whether I'm imagining her behaviour but I'm 99.9% sure I'm not. My friend who asked me to speak at the wedding hinted at it somewhat but we don't discuss it openly at all and never have. The most anyone's said is 'you know what X can be like' when recounting an incident involving her.

I think if I feel courageous enough I may try to gently challenge her but it's difficult when a lot of it is quite innocuous on its own, if it didn't form part of a recurring pattern. E.g. when she passes over my messages on the group and starts a conversation about something completely different as if I haven't spoken at all. I don't want to seem petty but as I say it's happened so many times.

You can say on WhatsApp "yes, yes, but what about [what I said]. Come on girls, what do you think?"

Humour is a good weapon.