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Original poster

Cannot cope with my daughter

33 replies

Sagapo2411 · 02/04/2020 13:59

I can't believe I'm staying this but I'm getting to the point where I don't like my daughter anymore. DD is 5 and started school in September, she has been exculed twice and was on a part time timetable at school for two months. She had her first full day back and then the schools closed with Coronavirus. When she has been there the class has had to be evacuated, once they all had to leave twice within the same day. She destroys school property and has threatened to stab her teacher with a pair of scissors.

This morning alone I have been called fat, stupid, spat at, shouted at and screamed at. She has hurt her brother and damaged furniture. I'm far from claiming to be the best mother but I do try my best, she has time outs, gets sent to her room and misses out on things. She gets positive reinforcement whenever I can and rewards at the end of good days. I've been to the doctor and they put her on for some Art Theapy but I don't know when that will happen now.

I have two other children and have never had these problems before with them and I'm feeling well out of my depth.

We all live on edge for the next thing to happen, my other two don't get anywhere near the amount of attention they deserve and I feel sad that I can't give them as much time.

I so want to be able to help her, my heart breaks for her and us as a family. And I'm getting to the point of enjoying when she is not around, and I hate that I feel like that. If anyone has any advice or has been there please I would so appreciate the help!

OP posts:
IceKitten · 02/04/2020 14:01

OP, this doesn't sound to me within the normal range of behaviour for a 5yo. Have you considered having her assessed for SEN?

Original poster
Sagapo2411 · 02/04/2020 14:04

I've asked and been advised that because she has good days and can also show a caring nature they don't think she meets the criteria for any special educational needs

OP posts:
IceKitten · 02/04/2020 14:08

Who said that? A teacher? Personally I'd take her to the GP and ask for a referral.

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langkaw · 02/04/2020 14:12

Senco here. They should absolutely be referring her for professional support. They shouldn't be excluding her on one hand and not suggesting any support on the other!

The senco really needs to be making a referral to camhs/and or early help. Camhs referrals are best done through schools as they have evidence. They should absolutely be doing this. The fact they have excluded a 5 year old is evidence enough! Have they put any support in place at all? Yes

I'm so sorry this is happening.

langkaw · 02/04/2020 14:15

Also, they can't decide whether she has sen. They are not qualified to do so.

langkaw · 02/04/2020 14:16

One more message. You sound like you are doing all the right things and are a lovely mum to her!

Original poster
Sagapo2411 · 02/04/2020 14:18

I've been told the same thing by the doctor and the schools Senco 😞😞😞 the doctor put us in touch with the emotional health academy who in turn put us on the list for Art Therapy for her but was told that as she can be very caring they don't want to looking into anything else or SEN. I've tried to look into things myself and mentioned to the Senco about pathological demand avoidance. She said she wondered herself but it goes with Autism which is isn't showing enough signs of so won't be perusing it.

OP posts:
chillipopcorn1 · 02/04/2020 14:18

Another SENDCo here. If your DD was in my school I would be completing referrals for additional support and writing supporting letters for a paediatric assessment (through your GP). I would also have done a CAMHS referral a few years ago but sadly we rarely bother now as the thresholds are ridiculously high and as extreme as this behaviour is it wouldn't meet criteria.
Does your school have a parent family support worker? She or he may be able to offer parenting support - some children need radically different approaches in parenting. It does sound like she has some kind of SEN. Has she had any traumatic experiences that may be influencing her behaviour?

chillipopcorn1 · 02/04/2020 14:19

Sorry cross post. SENDcos can't diagnose autism and shouldn't be telling you whether or not she is autistic!

blueskys72 · 02/04/2020 14:22

In total agreement with posters! And for the record, my one DC would give you their last rolo, help an old lady across the road, go litter picking etc etc on a good day; and destroy their bedroom, scream at us and hit us on a bad day when anxiety is high or various others reasons ... The one side of them does not exclude the other!

moomoogalicious · 02/04/2020 14:25

I've asked and been advised that because she has good days and can also show a caring nature they don't think she meets the criteria for any special educational needs

What rubbish. You know your dd. You have other dc so you know what the normal range of behaviour is. Push for support.

My dd was the perfect pupil at school - also diagnosed with autism aged 16.

Original poster
Sagapo2411 · 02/04/2020 14:37

Thank you so much for this! Honestly I'm in tears reading this as everytime I try and get help I feel shot down and told nothing more can be done and this has given me the encouragement to keep fighting!

Her school have been shocking and (although I'm happy to have her) have used any excuse to get her out the school, she was only going an hour a day and every time it increased the second there was a slight hycups they told me they were reducing it again. The day she went to full time it was a massive day for her and I tried everything to fill her with pride. An hour in I got a phone call, I was told to go back to bringing her in at 10.30 the next day as she didn't do her English work. This felt like my one achievement in it all as I argued the point and told them no! I wouldn't have her be made to feel a failure (which she told me she was so scared of happening).

I feel like I'm fighting the school and I want to be able to work with them!

I will be pushing all assments when she is back at school. Thank you so much!

OP posts:
Original poster
Sagapo2411 · 02/04/2020 14:41

I will add it did become pointless saying yes or no as we had to then go into isolation and then the school was shut 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️

OP posts:
SinkGirl · 02/04/2020 14:46

Children with SEN can be caring - my twins (very obviously autistic, diagnosed at 2) are very affectionate. Girls present differently to boys too. Some children with ASD can also mask for a certain amount of time and then fall apart which would fit with this.

Please read up on ASD in girls and then go back to your GP and SENCO until you get the referral. Don’t give up. We were lucky in a way because there was no doubt that something was going on with my two (non verbal, no eye contact, no interest in people, severely delayed in every area) so we had no problems getting them diagnosed. When things are less severe or more complex it can be a huge battle. Maybe contact the NAS for advice too. Theres also private assessment but it’s costly.

I would also recommend the book An Early Start For Your Child With Autism (even if it’s not ASD there’s plenty of strategies in there that would help you)

SinkGirl · 02/04/2020 14:50

Other option could be requesting an EHCP assessment yourself (template on the IPSEA website, you could do it and send it today- obviously things are up in the air with EHCPs right now but you’d be in the queue). If they’ve had to exclude her twice and have her on a part time timetable (this in itself is illegal exclusion) she should more than meet the criteria for assessment and then an Ed psych would have to see her as part of the assessment (speaking from personal experience I can’t say they’ll be any good).

Read everything about EHCPs on the IPSEA website. It’s been the biggest battle of my life so far and we are headed to tribunal but regardless of what happens my twins have plans now and will be attending a specialist school (only question is which one, and what’s in the plans, hence the tribunal).

oohnicevase · 02/04/2020 14:52

She sounds like she very much has some sort of SEN . I've never know a NT child behave like that ! Especially as the other two are fine . When this is all over ask for a referral to a developmental paediatrician ASAP !

FaithInfinity · 02/04/2020 14:58

My first thought was undiagnosed SEN (I’m autistic myself). Bless you it sounds really tough. I highly recommend The Explosive Child by Ross Greene. This book gives you good strategies to understand why a child behaves as they do and is written to help regardless of diagnosis (or not). We’ve seen some behavioural issues with DD (I suspect she’s also autistic but perhaps too early to tell). Following the strategies in the book has helped us massively.

bitchonthepitch · 02/04/2020 15:02

Whoever said that doesn't know what they are talking about, I'd be referring them for support and assessment. Thanks op.

langkaw · 02/04/2020 16:08

I would if I were you, email the senco now and ask her to make the referrals before school starts again so that you aren't made to wait.

She should do a Camhs (or is it cdc in primary?) referral. I know the waiting lists are long but if you are in the right postcode they are trying to get kids initially assessed within 4 weeks of referral (in normal non corona circumstances) the senco should also refer you for family support and they can put you in touch with services that can support you as a family. They should have done this much earlier on, when she was at risk of exclusion not after! They should also be able to justify why she is on a part time timetable as schools aren't really allowed to do this unless they can justify it and say it's part of a larger support plan. She should at the very least be on the sen register.

I would contact the senco and Ask him/her to make the referral and copy in the head teacher. Ask why she isn't on the sen register when are already making adjustments and why there is no support plan in place beyond excluding her. They are handling it very badly!!!

langkaw · 02/04/2020 16:11

@SinkGirl you are right. It is an illegal exclusion! They are not allowed to do this without advice from outside agencies. I would let the senco know you are aware of this fact and they should be grovelling!

blue25 · 02/04/2020 16:12

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SinkGirl · 02/04/2020 16:18

At least you get to see what a nightmare she is for teachers. If you can’t manage her at home how is a teacher of 30+ children supposed to cope with her?

Did you actually just type this?

If the teachers can’t cope with this five year old child they should be pursuing support for her and for them to enable her to access an education, to which she is legally entitled, rather than taking illegal steps such as putting her on a partial time table without so much as referring for assessment or applying for an EHCP needs assessment.

PeachesAndPops · 02/04/2020 16:22

Absolute nonsense that being ‘caring’ excludes SEN. Autistic people can vary day to day and being very caring. She is not displaying neurotypical behaviour and needs an assessment. I have two autistic children, and I am autistic myself. My youngest child sounds very similar so I know how hard it is to have such a young child, spit, swear, hit and destroy. I often feel completely overwhelmed and powerless. She is obviously trying communicate an unmet need.

The Explosive Child is a good book. And if you think there is an element of PDA, look up strategies for that too. Normal discipline methods don’t work for neurodiverse children. In some ways it doesn’t matter whether or not you get a diagnosis, as you can start implementing the strategies regardless.

langkaw · 02/04/2020 16:24

@blue25 wow!!!! You are dismissing a 5 year old child as a 'nightmare?' Have you read the thread? Do you understand that behaviour like that usually communicates a need? That's a completely unhelpful and nasty comment and I don't understand why you would come on this thread when you can see the op is distressed, and say that.

BoysRule · 02/04/2020 16:25

My son was similar at that age, he is 7 now and is much better but still has to work hard to control his behaviour. School are now assessing for ADHD.

Something that really affected him at that age was hunger (probably low blood sugar). School used to keep rice cakes in the cupboard for him and when they could see him 'turning' they would encourage him to eat. It really helped.

I also read The Explosive Child which was helpful. Consistent strict boundaries are essential but I know from experience that it isn't easy. It's along road of being consistent before you see any improvements.