Piers Morgan can feck off.

[Justginnoschweppes]

I’m sick of him spouting off about people going in to work. He is a multimillionaire who’s going in to work to still get paid.

He’s asking to name and shame employers that are trying to keep afloat.

My facebook is full of reposts with people clapping and cheering him on. Even my family members.

We just can’t close everything down for three or more weeks. This could last months. No one will have any jobs to go to, people will lose loved ones - which they are going to - and then lose their jobs, houses get in to debt. We’re heading in a massive financial crises. People need to be worried about their health but also would about their financial situation after too.

I’ve seen three posts this morning on my face book about greedy employers, forcing them in to work - one of which works in a care home.

I’m not a greedy employer. But I can see that if I close my doors for three weeks maybe be more- we might not reopen again. 19 staff will be out of work going on UC. Staff are all made up of families, some with babies on the way. We’ve had quite good support from our staff, thankfully!

Most Employers don’t have millions in the bank to be able to afford weeks after weeks of shut down. If we close - you suffer too.

If you can go to work - go in as there might be a very good chance of you standing in the unemployment queue before the year is out

@justgin
We are in same boat as you. Didn’t want to close our doors, but health and well-being of our employees and their families is our main concern at the moment.

We had already decided to ask staff to take some of their holiday entitlement until we figured out a solution. Then govt announced the corona virus retention policy and it has totally covered all our financial concerns for our staff.

Obviously, the devil is in the detail, but I think our staff are happy that they can protect their health by staying at home and receive at least 80% of their salary to stay home. We are hoping to make up the 20% difference, but that may be unsustainable in the long term.

We closed our doors yesterday after the PM’s announcement on Monday night to “stay home”.

I hope our business will recover once this is all over, but who knows if the demand will be there? We can only try eh? And if our business goes under, at least our staff will have been paid a decent wage whilst waiting for normal life to resume.

Unfortunately, our son works for a company who has decided to keep working. So while my husband and I, and our other children stay home, he is potentially exposed to cv, and could be bringing that back here. It seems utterly senseless, and I hope his employer changes their policy soon. All their office staff and managers are WFH, but the guys are still out there, working in an industry that is impossible to segregate properly in accordance with the 2m rule.

I am a worried mum at the moment! But feel I have done the right thing as a business owner.

The ‘cure’ is going to be worse than the illness at this rate.

I’m fed up of sanctimonious aggressive posts which don’t take into account that many people will literally starve and lose their homes if they have no money coming in.

I can't agree with this enough.
Someone posted this video yesterday on here and the consequences of this lockdown and demands to completely shut down the economy have massive risks to health and wellbeing. It is not as simple as idiots like Piers Morgan chose to believe.

My DH is still going to work in a non essential industry because he cannot work from home so what is he supposed to do? Not go in and therefore not be paid? I’d love for him to be at home but realistically until the Government orders a shut down of ALL non essential workplaces, his company will not close down and he will have to continue going to work. It’s an awful situation to be in 😢

I turned him off this morning , he shouts over everyone ! No one can put another point across and when a multimillionaire is sat at work earning money telling everyone else to stop work , not to go on the tube . These people making these journeys are probably desperate , have no way of getting to work other than by tube or won’t get any money as they are self employed . I’m a key worker I’d love to be at home , my employer says I can stay at home but I won’t get paid 🤷‍♀️ All I can do is be careful .

hamsterarse that video is really interesting.

You can shutdown non essential businesses, my State along with others has done this.
Yes it comes with a severe financial cost and all that comes with that.
But you can't do anything when you are dead.
There is a point when lives have to come before profit.

midwestspring did you know people died of other coronavirus everyday before Covid 19?

This isn’t going to kill every one. What’s going to kill more people is the state of the economy after this

But you can't do anything when you are dead

I understand that we have all been frightened by the messages about this virus but there is still a debate (not that you would know it) about the lethality of this virus. We do know that MOST people do not die from it, and we do know that if you have an underlying health condition then it is much more risky.

This paper here looks at Italy and how the reported figures in our headlines really need to be broken down further. If someone has 'live' cancer and contracts coronavirus, then is their cause of death cancer or coronavirus? This really matters when we are talking about shutting down our whole economy.

I AM NOT SAYING THAT LOSS OF LIFE IS OK

I am saying that govts have acted very cautiously and the draconian measures are not necessarily going to save lives, and these measures may in fact cause worse problems down the road.

jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2763667

www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1201971219303285

But having cancer isn't always a death sentence. They could have lived with it for years, even recovered, if they hadn't have been infected with COVID 19.

Piers Morgan is one of the very few speaking any sense right now.

Better small businesses go under than more people die.

I agree with Piers! A lock down is a lock down. Some people just do not like to be told what to do! So many going into work to insignificant jobs when they have been told to stay at home. OP your livelihood of your business is not more important than peoples health and mortality!

I'm with Piers Morgan on this one.

'If you can go to work - go in as there might be a very good chance of you standing in the unemployment queue before the year is out'

Much rather be standing in the unemployment queue than laying on a respirator (if they have one available.)

I'm not a nitwit I understand that other illness including infectious viruses have killed people and will continue to do so.

I also understand that although C19 seems to be very infectious it doesn't have an overall high death rate.

I also understand that closing down the economy has long term repercussions.

I was pointing out it is perfectly possible to shut down non essential business and many States and countries have done this.
They have chosen to do this to protect the weak and vulnerable in their societies from dying.

'I am saying that govts have acted very cautiously and the draconian measures are not necessarily going to save lives, and these measures may in fact cause worse problems down the road.'

I wouldnt take a punt on those studies thats for sure. I'd rather stick with the draconian measures when it comes to life and death thank you.

I have noticed people are NEVER happy with what the government does. I knew when lockdown occurred, their still be moaning about the NEXT thing.

These people who moan like Piers are the ones still going out etc. Feck off.

Better small businesses go under than more people die.

Does the potential suicide rate of this not concern you?

Oh and to save the nhs becoming even more impacted than it already is!

YesItsMeIDontCare unfortunately that is a variable that cannot be remedied. The alternative is risking a potentially deadly and extremely contagious virus spreading to the point the nhs would crumble. There is no choice here.

Better small businesses go under than more people die

But what we are talking about is whether this all adds up. Immediate deaths may reduce, but over the long term when the economy has tanked completely, what is the impact? It is all very well saying let small businesses go under as you see immediate deaths as more important, but it really isn't a great idea to do this without ALL the relevant information on what threat this virus actually represents. No-one has all that information, which is the problem. But there are counter arguments that are as valid to the "shut everything down" approach, but this has very quickly been seen as something we can't even discuss without it being "are you happy for all these people to die"

I honestly think something has gone very wrong with society if we are saying that we are prepared to let significant numbers of vulnerable people in our society die so we can continue to maintain our current standards of living.

My DM is very annoying at times and don't get me wrong I certainly don't want to risk my comfortable life but when push comes to shove I'm going to choose my mum over my house if I have to and honestly I don't know anyone who wouldn't make the same choice.

Looking at the suicide issue I would be surprised if the levels of this during the last financial crisis reached the levels of mortality that Italy and Spain are currently experiencing?

There is a choice. And it's a shit one. And I wish I had an answer.

If the country locks down completely I will lose my home and probably my husband. My son will live with his father and I will have to give my adored pet away too. I have mental health issues and an invisible disability.

And no-one gives a shit. 🤷🏼‍♀️

Which doesn't mean that I don't think the economics down the road won't be very unpleasant.
I do think they will be.
But the alternative is even worse.

Does the potential suicide rate of this not concern you?

YesItsMeIDontCare No. These are hard times with hard choices to be made.

There is no perfect outcome; we can only mitigate where possible. Lockdown, and the potential of small businesses going under is preferable to an overwhelmed NHS and many more thousands of deaths.

I honestly think something has gone very wrong with society if we are saying that we are prepared to let significant numbers of vulnerable people in our society die so we can continue to maintain our current standards of living.

And there it is.

The bit you have pulled out there "so we can continue to maintain our current standards of living" is just so incredibly naive.
Do you understand the consequences of a totally tanked economy? There will be no NHS that way either!

This will completely rile you, but it is true. No human life has any intrinsic (or absolute) value. We sacrifice human life all the time, for the greater good. We send men out to war to protect our 'standard of living' (as you call it) and always have done.

Balancing these things is not as simple as to say that we must stop these few people here dying whatever the consequences to everyone else.