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Original poster

Please can anyone with the police or with knowledge of speeding fines/ traffic offences help me?

38 replies

Guttersnipe · 03/03/2020 15:14

I have just received a letter saying I committed a road traffic offence. The letter is from the police speeding unit but the letter says my offence was driving without due care and attention. The evidence provided is a series of photos of my car proceeding down the road, no record of speed, no obvious offence I can see.

Previously, when I was caught speeding in another police area, the letter stated my speed. As this letter does not mention my speed, am I to assume I was doing something else wrong? And how do I find out what that was? I have been driving for nearly 40 years and I am not trying to wriggle out of punishment if I have done something wrong, but I would like to know exactly what it was.

OP posts:
Original poster
Guttersnipe · 03/03/2020 15:23

I have looked up the part of the law I am supposed to have broken and it simply says

If a person drives a mechanically propelled vehicle on a road or other public place without due care and attention, or without reasonable consideration for other persons using the road or place, he is guilty of an offence

So I am not being prosecuted for speeding but what? If I cant see anything in the photos, I don't understand what I have done wrong.

OP posts:
3jane · 03/03/2020 15:24

Does the letter not have details of how to ask for more information or appeal?

AnchorDownDeepBreath · 03/03/2020 15:25

Undue care and attention doesn’t cover speeding, or drink/drug crimes, or using your mobile phone - if I’m remembering my degree right. But it’s a wide code and it can be used for a lot of things... setting your sat nav, map reading, eating at the wheel, being distracted by passengers, tailgating, driving aggressively, not giving way, swerving across lanes, etc.

Is it a fixed penalty notice that you’ve got, offering 3 points and a £100 fine?

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

Driving & parking
JKScot4 · 03/03/2020 15:25

Can you remember that journey?
It covers quite a variety of things;
Excessive speed or aggressive driving
Carrying out other tasks while driving
Vehicle used for the carriage of heavy goods or for the carriage of passengers for reward
Tiredness or driving whilst unwell
Driving contrary to medical advice (including written advice from the drug manufacturer not to drive when taking any medicine)

SkelingtonArgument · 03/03/2020 15:29

There should be a statement of fact setting out how exactly your standard of driving fell short. Check through the papers again, there must be more than just photos

BarbaraofSeville · 03/03/2020 15:32

Is the letter actually genuine? I didn't know that the police looked out for this offence by photographs, only speeders and phone users (you weren't on your phone were you?). I thought they stopped people for other offences?

If it's the first letter on this matter, it should be a Notice of Intended Prosecution asking you to name the driver and then they will send the fine/course offer to the named driver. Can you check the contact details given online/in person?

Are the photos definitely your car? Are there any photos showing the driver? Were you in the place where it says?

I'd check this out carefully before sending off your driving licence or any money, as it sounds a bit iffy to me.

Original poster
Guttersnipe · 03/03/2020 15:50

Ok, I found a website link in the letter and through that a phone number which I rang. The woman there said the photos had been taken (by a member of the public on a dashcam?) and sent to the traffic department who had deemed an offence had taken place. When I told her the photos just show me driving down a road with no other vehicles or pedestrians in sight, she told me she would put me through to the person who had seen the footage and deemed an offence had taken place. But when she put me through, I just got a voice message more or less saying I wasnt to ring this number. I left a message and will see if anyone gets back to me.

I think I remember the incident now. I overtook a cyclist at a traffic island but there was plenty of room. Is this an offence? Do the police prosecute on the basis of footage from peoples dashcams or helmet cameras or whatever this was from? I have never heard of this before. Is it genuine?

OP posts:
Original poster
Guttersnipe · 03/03/2020 15:53

Definitely my car, definitely me driving (sadly) although no, there is no picture of me, and I would never be on my phone or doing anything illegal knowingly.

OP posts:
Original poster
Guttersnipe · 03/03/2020 15:56

Anchor, I wasnt doing any of those things. Yes to £100 and 3 points or take a course.

If it was what I think it was, overtaking a cyclist at a traffic island, is that an offence? It was an A road, quite wide, plenty of space to get passed a cyclist. I did not know that was illegal.

OP posts:
user1492771818 · 03/03/2020 16:00

Rule 167 Do not overtake where the road narrows.

SkelingtonArgument · 03/03/2020 16:00

It’s driving without due care if you passed too close to the cyclist when you overtook - which you probably did if you overtook where there is a traffic island in the middle of the road

HopeYouStepOnALego · 03/03/2020 16:05

You're supposed to leave about 1.5m clearance when overtaking a cyclist. Do you think you definitely left that much space OP? I personally would have slowed and waited for the cyclist to clear the traffic island before continuing on and overtaking them.

Original poster
Guttersnipe · 03/03/2020 16:07

Ok, well, at least I now know what I did wrong. I was not aware of the rule, well obviously common sense tells me it, but this is a wide road so even with a traffic island in the middle, I deemed there was plenty of room to get past ( the road used to have 3 lanes, so that tells you how wide it is). I was also unaware that police took footage from members of the public as evidence.

OP posts:
woodencoffeetable · 03/03/2020 16:12

Shock that you didn't even realise what you did wrong.
pay the fine and make sure to leave plenty of space when overtaking cyclists in the futurem

Qwerty543 · 03/03/2020 16:22

If the cyclist isn't in the picture then how on earth have the police deemed an offence has been committed from those photos? Confused

TheFastandTheCurious · 03/03/2020 16:23

and stop speeding in future

Buyitinbamboo · 03/03/2020 16:24

I would guess the footage is from the cyclists helmet? I believe you should give them a whole lanes room when overtaking

NanTheWiser · 03/03/2020 16:25

Maybe the cyclist had a helmet camera, and took photos after you had passed, and felt you were too close near the traffic island.

puppymouse · 03/03/2020 16:30

Why on earth do these threads always turn into a finger wagging exercise? I don't even know the OP and I'm annoyed on her behalf.

"How could you not even know??" Umm she's human and is asking because the images don't show the issue?

"Don't speed next time." She wasn't!

OP hope you can take the fine on the chin and know for next time. I think cyclists are more and more at risk so I can see how they might have reacted badly.

JayAlfredPrufrock · 03/03/2020 16:34

You are meant to leave a whole lanes width to overtake a cyclist? In which universe?

Original poster
Guttersnipe · 03/03/2020 16:35

Qwerty, I wondered the same myself but I suppose the police saw video footage which was taken from the cyclists helmet and judged the offence from that.

I am not going to make excuses for it. It happened. I judged there was enough room. It is, or was, a wide 3 lane road, not an already narrow road at all but obviously I judged wrong if the police don't think I left enough room. Hopefully I will learn from this and also from the course I will opt to go on.

And to the person telling me not to speed: pipe down. If you read the thread you will see I was not judged to be speeding. My speeding offence took place years ago and I have been very conscious of my speed ever since. Also, when i was caught speeding, i was going 1 mph over the speed i could be prosecuted for. This was confirmed by the trainer on the speed awareness course. I am not a law breaker intentionally. I am human and occasionally I make mistakes.

OP posts:
Brakebackcyclebot · 03/03/2020 16:37

Do the police prosecute on the basis of footage from peoples dashcams or helmet cameras or whatever this was from?

Yes they do. I know this because I did a speeding course yesterday and they told us that the police absolutely take evidence from dashcams/camera footage sent in by the public.

Brakebackcyclebot · 03/03/2020 16:39

You are meant to leave a whole lanes width to overtake a cyclist? In which universe?

This one. Yes, you are supposed to only overtake a cyclist in the same way that you would overtake a car - ie. you move into the opposite carriageway and leave a car's width. This was also covered on my course yesterday. Who do you think would come off worse in a collision between a car who hadn't left enough room and a cyclist? Cyclists are also told by the Highway Code that it is sensible to ride 2 abreast, so that they actually take up the width of a car, so that they are safer in the lane.

DisgraceToTheYChromosome · 03/03/2020 16:40

Indeed they do. My previous firm encouraged drivers to do it, and the Crimestoppers rewards would go to build schools in Africa.

joystir59 · 03/03/2020 16:42

Do you have the option of going to court/arbitration op? I'd really want to know what I did wrong before paying up, personally