Would you do this at work?

[RapunzelsRealMom]

Just a poll really to see if I’m in the minority or not...

If you are relatively serious about your job, not senior but in a responsible role, and you have booked annual leave at work but, at that time, you end up sick , would you bother to ‘reclaim’ the sick days so that you can use the annual leave at a later date?

It would depend on the illness. If I was in hospital or signed off by a doctor and consequently couldn't go on a planned holiday then I would ask about it. If I had a week off and ended up with a cold then no. And I had a week off (away in the UK) when my mum died, I was entitled to compassionate leave but I didn't even consider asking for my annual leave to be changed to that.

Your judgement is extremely unfair OP. The employee had a legal right to do this, it's even expected that one does this here in Norway. An employee who has had a proper holiday to enjoy themselves in is always more productive than one who was sick during their holiday so didn't actually get a holiday. This isn't a martyrdom competition, you don't have to be a slave to your job to be committed and dedicated to a career. It's about balance.

My DH has done this before, but he did have a slipped disc and missed going to visit a family member. If it was just a cold or similar then no he wouldn't.

I wouldn't do it for self certificated illness but I have been given the holidays back when I've been signed off sick by a doctor. I didn't ask, work just did it because I couldn't be on annual leave and off on certificated sickness at the same time.

I've known people to do this repeatedly though for colds etc. While it's covered in our employment ts&cs most people don't bother for minor things. It's always the same couple of people who like to take the piss with everything at work who will ask for the holidays back. They don't have much respect from their colleagues or management for this and many other similar things.

I never have and how many times have I been sick when on annual leave, it's almost as if the body is waiting for a moment's downtime.

I didnt realise this was a possibility but when I found out due to a colleague who had quite a lot of sickness which we all had to cover and then was sick on annual leave and then swopped. We were all a little peeved.

What I would say though is that should you go on long term sickness, it all counts as sickness in the 12 month period and could affect your SSP.

Additionally, when businesses run their sickness stats to see who has most sickness/above average etc and start managing those situations and putting people on plans ... it's good not to have all those sick days showing up especially odd days ... for that reason, I never recorded sickness during annual leave.

Our policy extends to reclaiming public holidays which fall in a period of sickness, as well as annual leave.

You have annual leave for a reason. It's not for being ill - that doesn't make you more productive!

I wouldn't because where I work we are subject to stringent sickness policy so if I'm unwell on holiday I'm just grateful I don't have to chose between dragging myself into work feeling crap and risk spreading it, or, adding a couple more days to my sickness record.

I do have quite a lot if holiday though.

Somewhere where I got less leave entitlement and they weren't so hot on sickness absence I would probably request a doctor's note and ask to reclaim the leave. I think you would have to contact work straight away though and have something which completely stopped you being able to enjoy your holiday (ie not a cold).

However if I had been unwell enough that I was unable to travel and then found my boss was awkward, condescending and judgemental when I tried to reclaim what I was entitled to, I would start looking for a new role because who wants to work with a manager like that?

No I wouldn’t. It annoys me when colleagues do this but it’s their legal right.

I have to say I’m usually relived I’ve been poorly on annual leave instead of at work and having to take sick days!

If it's serious enough to be signed off by a doctor, yes. IMO annual leave is there to help your work/life balance, mental health and enjoyment of life - and if you're very unwell during your leave, it's pointless.

If I'd just got a cold (even if it was a bad one) I wouldn't.

Probably not, unless I was seriously ill the whole time. It just wouldn't seem worth the bother, plus I have a generous holiday allowance but am always worried about taking sick days.

However, it's company policy that we are allowed to do this, so people calling it unprofessional and piss-taking are surprising me slightly!

I’ve got to be honest, I’m a little entertained by some of these posts. The projections and assumptions that I acted unprofessionally, was awkward, condescending or openly judgemental are nonsense.

To those judging me for my judgement of others - have a think. My judgement of anyone is purely in my thoughts (until I anonymously post on an Internet forum, of course - however, this remains my thoughts, not my actions).

As I’ve already stated, I found no guidance internally, so I actively pursued this externally and, on finding it was right and proper, immediately rectified the situation, as per our legal rights. I did this without sharing my thoughts or opinions - they are mine and no one else’s business.

I do appreciate the ‘depends on circumstances’ posts. Some posters say they’d do it if being ill actually meant they’d missed out on a holiday. Absolutely! But they also say if it was a cold or such like, no way!

And to those who would hate it if I was their manager - fair enough. You’d hate it if you had a manager who researched areas they were unsure about and made sure you received your legal right, whether they agreed with it or not, without giving any indication of their personal views? Strange, but we are each entitled to our opinions

But OP you said she has gone down in your estimations. How is that not going to impact how you behave or think of her in the future? By your very own admission you 'think' of her differently despite not doing anything wrong.

Yes, you said it puts her in a poor light and she has gone down in your estimation. You said that...we didn’t imagine your stance. That puts you in a poor light.

As you are a good manager will you now share this information with the rest of your team and all the other managers.

I've done it a few times, it's built into our annual leave policy. Nobody has ever questioned it and I was off with work related injuries anyway.

No going back now OP. Your personal opinion is irrelevant and by your own post you had made your mind up at the start by saying shes gone down in your estimation. To further attempt to redeem yourself by using taking to MN for advice is probably even worse. Entirely worrying you sought advice on a legal matter from MN. You should have consulted either ACAS or an EL specialist. Yeah, you blew it.

If you are going on holiday - or planning to holiday at home - and fall sick, you cancel your holiday and go off sick. It's quite usual.

I would consider myself a poor manager if I didn't bring it to a member of staff's attention that they had the right to do this if they so wished, if they weren't already aware of it.

A company who doesn't look after its workforce and isn't prepared to give them decent R&R time deserves to fail.

I work for a large global firm in consulting. Sickness, when covered by a medical certificate, whilst in annual leave is not counted as part of annual leave per holiday policy.

As I’ve already stated, I found no guidance internally, so I actively pursued this externally and, on finding it was right and proper, immediately rectified the situation, as per our legal rights.

Why would you have internal guidance on what is the law? I’m also really taken aback that you are a manager and seemingly ignorant of very basic employee rights.

I think it really shows the employee in a poor light, especially if they are serious about their career.

I’m afraid it is you who shows in a poor light. A very poor light.

I did this once. I had booked to take holiday one half term but was subsequently offered surgery in that week (I'd been on the waiting list for a while).
I thought it was reasonable to take three days as sick leave instead (I only worked 3 days a week at the time).

However, if I'd just happened to be ill while on holiday I wouldn't have changed it.

I would say that whilst, as an employee, I probably wouldn't do that, the fact that you are arguing the toss about taking leave she's entitled to by law, and doing so on MN no less, doesn't actually shower you in glory either. Of the two of you, what you're doing is far less professional.

No I wouldn't, I'm grateful for my job and I think people who reclaim are grabby and don't really care about the company

I don't care about the company. Companies don't care about their employees - if you died tomorrow, you would be replaced in minutes. Nobody is irreplaceable when it comes to the workforce.

I worked for my previous company for years - when I needed sick leave because of MH issues I was bullied out of the workplace. Fuck company loyalty. They give not one shit about you.