Legally, who owns this?

[MyNameHasBeenTaken]

All names have been changed.
Names used for clarity.
Luke is my teen
Fred is Luke's good friend
Claire is Fred's mum
Dave is Fred's dad

I had a minor argument with Luke. Nothing drastic, just typical teen laziness, teen knows everything, mum cant be right ever!
Luke decided to stand on his own 2 feet for a bit and went to stay with fred. Fred still lives with his parents, but has the loft converted to a mini flat.
Fred often has friends over to play xbox or whatever.

Luke stayed with fred for a few weeks, including xmas.

Claire and dave took out a contract phone for luke. This was his xmas present from them.
Luke was given the phone and has been using it.

Luke then had a falling out with claire.
Nothing major. Just teen laziness and teens know everything .
He came back home. All good. Lessons learned all round.
But he has left loads of stuff in Fred's flat.
Including his original phone and the new phone given to him by Clare and dave.

Obviously claire has to pay for this phone or it will affect her credit score.

But who actually owns the new phone?
Claire and dave are (I assume) paying for it for the next 2 years, maybe 3?

But they got it for, and gave it to, Luke.

Hope that's not an essay. Nothing important missing. Making sense.

I would be very concerned about an older woman taking such an interest in my teen son and buying him extravagant gifts. If it was man doing the same with a teen girl everyone would be screaming "grooming".
But yes, it's her phone, her contract so agree it should be left with her.

That is part of the reason fred has his flat.
Fred also has mh issues

SS advised that two 15-16 year olds with MH issues should live on their own in a flat together? Is it a granny annex or is is separate from the parents' home?

This all seems odd, and Claire's behaviour in committing to a long-term phone contract for someone else's child is just bizarre.

Just give the phone back, get his stuff and keep Claire at arm's length.

Give the phone back to Claire get like stuff back... sort out solution for Luke phone (2nd hand site like envirophone?)
I would just get clear space between you/like and Claire .... hard to tell motivations from info so far but boundaries never do any harm.... if you need back up parents maybe SS or Cambs can help you more...
my bf daughter sometimes goes and stays with a relative/family friends god a weekend/overnight to give respite to both due her mental health issues... but weeks seems bit long

Although my mum looked at boarding school for me for similar reasons so I can see why you can end up in those situations...

Madness

If he left on good terms whiy does he need help to remove his things or even why did he leave without them. Very few teens would abandon items such as a phone. Could Fred bring a bag of his things to school?

If the cost of the phone is part of the contract it is Claire's. If you do not wish them to have ongoing involvement with Luke give it back. He does not need it. You do not need SS advice to decide.

Claire and Dave are idiots. Who the hell takes a phone contract out for someone else's child?! Even capped there are ways to run up extra on the bill. And what happens if they fall out? This shit obviously!

The phone is their property as they're paying for it but if Luke accidentally damages it, it's going to cost him. I'd rather hand it back and wash my hands of the whole thing.

To all those saying hand it back...
It is still with claire!
The "flat " is a loft conversion.
Large bedroom and own shower room.
Standard interior bedroom door.
Just a nice teenager den!
Thanks to all those who have clarified neither luke or me will be responsible for a bill for a phone claire still has.

Legally, it's a gift, it belongs to Luke. He can keep it.

If Claire bought the phone outright (eg went into an Apple shop and bought an iPhone) and gave it to him, he could keep it and use his own SIM/contract and Claire could cancel her contract, if the terms allow. If Claire signed up for a standard 2 year contract that includes purchase of the phone spread over 24 months (what most people do), she is tied into that contract. The gift is the phone and the contract as you can't separate them out, although I suppose she could ask for the SIM back but legally Luke could still keep the phone as it was a gift. Although, depending on what the contract says, the phone company might be able to repossess the phone if Claire stops paying.

You certainly shouldn't be taking on the contract. You have no moral or legal obligation to do that. Why should you pay for a gift from someone else? That said, it would be a bit cheeky to keep the phone and return the SIM. Morally, the best thing to do would be just return the gift.

As PP have said, Claire has crossed all kinds of boundaries. It seems like a bribe to entice Luke to choose to live with her. It was a gift with strings attached. Even more reason to return the phone and cut the ties...

Thanks to all those who have clarified neither luke or me will be responsible for a bill for a phone claire still has.

Of course you wouldn't be responsible for the contract she entered into - no-one can force someone else to enter into a contract.

Claire was stupid to commit to a contract, and it's between her and the phone company.

If she asks you to take it over, just tell her 'no thank you'. You wouldn't have chosen to commit to that contract and she can't make you!

It seems like Claire was under the impression, possibly following your argument with Luke, that she could parent him better. The phone contract was probably part of that whole issue, & to make him feel more at home there to keep her own DS company. And now it's backfired, she's discovered that he's actually just a normal teenage boy with moods & some MH issues, probably much like her own DS, & she's not happy to have been proven wrong.

In your position I'd support Luke, he's lost a family he'd previously grown close to & thought he could rely on, it must be hard for him. Albeit, you've (quite reasonably) not given lots of detail so it's difficult to know really whose "fault" their disagreement really was. Could have been cumulative, it sounds like she has some weird boundaries TBH, & maybe he found it a bit odd but didn't know how to express that.

As for the phone - she's the adult. She took the contract out. Tough, TBH. Your DS needs to be more careful of his belongings but I certainly don't think I'd feel remotely obligated to take over any part of the responsibility for paying for a 2nd phone you had no part in purchasing.

Sorry, I can't see if you've mentioned, but if Luke is still on tolerably good terms with Fred, can they arrange a time for you to help him retrieve his stuff? By taxi if necessary? They could sort it out at school & Fred could just box up any stuff beforehand so you & Luke could probably be in & out quickly.

So it's just a loft bedroom with an ensuite? Not the 'independent living' l (and others am sure?) Took from the OP!

Dont know how you took it as independent living from thr op

It clearly says fred still lives with his parents in the loft which has been converted into a mini flat

Just the fact it was described as a 'flat' I presumed, which l accept I've picked up wrongly that it was more separate, as to me a flat would include a kitchen area etc!

And the 'standing on own two feet' re independent part.

Samsung would have wiped everything on it when they replaced the screen

Really? That's utterly shit service! (Which is not relevant to the thread 😂)

Dont be daft. It would do a factory reset and then you reload your phone. Info is not lost.

Dont be daft. It would do a factory reset and then you reload your phone. Info is not lost.

Is that "don't be daft" directed at me or the OP?

I've had screens and a battery replaced in Apple products and all were returned with the same data they had when handed over. I didn't have to do anything.

As others have said, a lot of mobile phone companies don't actually repair the phone, they just replace the handset with a new one. If you have been backing up, then it's no problem. If you haven't been backing up, then you'll lose your data. If you take it to a small repair shop, they should just replace the screen for you and you won't lose the data.

I think the "legally it's a gift, so you own the phone" thing isn't actually true in this case because the phone is on contract. It depends on the terms of the contract, especially as the OP's son is a minor. But, she bought it for him, so she might still want him to have it. It depends on how bad the falling-out was. The easiest thing would be to talk to her about it, but I'm sensing that's not an option.

Also think it’s totally bizarre that ‘Claire’ and ‘dave’ gave this as a present! A pair of socks or something would’ve been more appropriate!

Claire’s contract Claire’s phone.

Even if she offers the phone I’d tell her to keep it, possibly selling it on to pay for the rest of the contract or a chunk of it anyway. I wondered if it’s an iPhone and they all have them, locations enabled etc where she can monitor where they are and what they do on their phones but can’t with the Samsung you gave him.

Also a cheap corner “phone repair” shop should be able to replace the screen without touching the data on the actual phone. Learned that the fun way after mine met the stone tiles.

Claire is paying for it and Luke left it behind.

It's Claire's phone.

Is that "don't be daft" directed at me or the OP?
At the OP soup
I've smashed a screen on more than one occasion, once on the second day of owning a phone and not getting a screen protector in time. I just send it off and re load when I get it back.

Sharkey.
Exactly!
We have given fred, his siblings, and dave and claire small gifts in the past.
They have also done the same for our family. Perfectly what I see as normal things.
Passed on dresses too small from one girl to another.
Baby sat pets or kids for an hour now and then. Both ways.
Grabbed a loaf or milk when passing the shop while the other is home with a sick child .
All friendly stuff.
But a phone??
Yeah, ok. A 50 quid second hand one as a gift as a necessity. With a pay and go sim thrown in.
I am relieved I am not the crazy one here.

A lot of misunderstanding of teenage social work here, namely from some arseholes who seem to think that they only get involved with some sorts of 'failing families'. @rhowton* @cuckooken*

Arsehole? Me?

I don't think so. If you could give an example of how and when that would be great.

He has mental health issues, so is more than likely to have a mental health social worker. How do you extrapolate from this that the OP is somehow failing as a parent, and this oddbod Claire is trying to do right by him?

I never once said or even insinuated that the OP was failing her son. Not once.

What I did say, early on, was that she may have been trying to help by getting him to do stuff for her. That means help him, nothing to do with OP and how they parent. It's ok to expanded an arm to support a kid who has mental health issues.

Ah bold fail - sorry