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Original poster

Legally, who owns this?

101 replies

MyNameHasBeenTaken · 26/01/2020 09:05

All names have been changed.
Names used for clarity.
Luke is my teen
Fred is Luke's good friend
Claire is Fred's mum
Dave is Fred's dad

I had a minor argument with Luke. Nothing drastic, just typical teen laziness, teen knows everything, mum cant be right ever!
Luke decided to stand on his own 2 feet for a bit and went to stay with fred. Fred still lives with his parents, but has the loft converted to a mini flat.
Fred often has friends over to play xbox or whatever.

Luke stayed with fred for a few weeks, including xmas.

Claire and dave took out a contract phone for luke. This was his xmas present from them.
Luke was given the phone and has been using it.

Luke then had a falling out with claire.
Nothing major. Just teen laziness and teens know everything .
He came back home. All good. Lessons learned all round.
But he has left loads of stuff in Fred's flat.
Including his original phone and the new phone given to him by Clare and dave.

Obviously claire has to pay for this phone or it will affect her credit score.

But who actually owns the new phone?
Claire and dave are (I assume) paying for it for the next 2 years, maybe 3?

But they got it for, and gave it to, Luke.

Hope that's not an essay. Nothing important missing. Making sense.

OP posts:
cuckooken · 26/01/2020 09:52

Claire sounds like a weirdo.
Luke shouldn't stay around Claire's anymore.

Eh? She sounds like a nice person doing her best to help a kid who needs it!

Don't let anyone else parent your child because they are stricter that's just madness , put your foot down.

Did you kiss the fact that SS are involved here? It's not as simple as you seem to think. There are many reasons why SS can be involved with a child but usually it is because they need intervention.

Antihop · 26/01/2020 09:54

If you weren't consulted about the contract phone before the decision was made to buy it, you have no responsibility for it.

youngestisapsycho · 26/01/2020 09:58

Why haven’t you, as the adult, just gone with Luke to collect his stuff from Fred’s?

wonderpants · 26/01/2020 10:05

If Claire was male and Luke was female, would the concern about over-interest and extravagant gifts be different?
I would be concerned my son was being groomed!

Original poster
MyNameHasBeenTaken · 26/01/2020 10:06

Youngest - brilliant user name!
Several reasons.
Ss have said they will do this, to avoid any more upset.
I don't drive at the moment. Leg injury.
I also have to work, parent my kids , keep my house...
As does claire. I do not know when there will be anybody at their house.

OP posts:
Original poster
MyNameHasBeenTaken · 26/01/2020 10:09

Anyway, thanks to the people who have commented about this damn phone.

I was not consulted. I did not agree. Did not consent. Did not offer payment.
I am glad the general consensus is
"They took it out, they keep it, they pay"
That is fine by me and by luke.

OP posts:
BlackCatSleeping · 26/01/2020 10:11

I think it wasn’t really clear why you were asking. I’m glad they will go and pick up bus stuff. Just leave the new phone at their house, it isn’t your son’s responsibility. I would also be concerned about the boundaries here between your son and Claire. Is she just a friend or is she related to you?

BlackCatSleeping · 26/01/2020 10:13

bus stuff = his stuff

nikkylou · 26/01/2020 10:13

Ignoring all the who did / did not, should and shouldn't etc.
Depending on who the phone is with the 'phone's and the airtime will be separate.
Now I'd say the phone part was the gift and the airtime an added bonus. Personally as Claire has given the phone to Luke, he should be allowed to keep it. I suppose legally a gift is a gift, and is owned by the recipient. But that doesn't mean she should have an ongoing commitment to pay his airtime.
Plus what's 'fair' is probably more complicated.
Does Luke want the new phone?
I'd say Luke can keep the phone. You have no obligation to offer to pay for the gift but I'm sure an offer of a contribution or perhaps a 'gift' of the old phone so she can sell it or whatever would be gratefully received.
But you should offer to pay the airtime portion of the bill if claire would like to continue to pay monthly for the phone. If she decides she's going to pay off her contract she would only have to pay for the phone not the months of airtime. As this likely a large bill though, if she chooses to do this you could offer to pay the airtime used in retrospect. So in numbers:
Contract is made up of Phone £20 per month and Airtime £10.
Either Claire continues to pay the £20 and you offer to pay the £10 airtime per month.
Or claire decides to end the contract and pays the lump sum balance of the phone, say £500, and you may offer to pay £60 as the airtime portion of usage.

vdbfamily · 26/01/2020 10:19

do you know why, considering her already had a phone, that they got him a second phone? Was it an upgraded model, were you refusing to pay for current phone? I don't get why a16 year old would have 2 phones.

ThanosSavedMe · 26/01/2020 10:26

To all those people saying why did the op allow her son to leave home. Do they have teenagers? How exactly would they stop their 15 year old son leaving?

There are some really perfect parents on here.

Op I don’t know if Claire is genuinely trying to help you and your son or if she is trying to take over, only you would know that. But no, you don’t need to take over the contract, she made the decision to buy your son a phone

BlackCatSleeping · 26/01/2020 10:26

@nickylou

I think from the OP’s update, she is saying they don’t want the phone and don’t want to pay, but she is wondering if they are obliged to pay. I don’t see how she is as she it’s not her contract and her son is a minor.

AJPTaylor · 26/01/2020 10:29

Sounds like a whole lot of, hopefully we'll intentioned weirdness to me.

Original poster
MyNameHasBeenTaken · 26/01/2020 10:33

Nikkylou
Thank you!
That's what I mean, but I'm crap at explaining...

Luke does like the new phone. It is a decent phone. Accepted as a "cool phone" by the teens in general.
I have the same phone. I like it!

Luke is not greedy. He knows I cant afford another phone for him, as i am paying for one at the moment. Screen smashed, accident. Still paying air time.
But he could put his original sim in the xmas present phone??
Then I will still be paying for the second year of the 2 year contract I have already got for him.

I guess I will ask ss for their advice on this too.

But the handset (gift) and airtime ( long term) can be separated,?

OP posts:
katewhinesalot · 26/01/2020 10:34

Yep they keep it and do whatever they want with "their" contract.

Would there be a problem getting his phone and belongings back?

Original poster
MyNameHasBeenTaken · 26/01/2020 10:38

Luke had a nice 2 year old phone. It fell out of his pocket when he emptied tumble dryer.
Screen smashed.
Samsung would have wiped everything on it when they replaced the screen. So we left it as he has games on there.
He has been using a basic smart phone which never worked as a phone with the sim it came with.
So it only worked on wifi. But he said he would be fine with wifi and did not to have it swapped in the shop.
So c and d phone would work as a phone and not rely on whattsapp or whatever is wifi only.

OP posts:
Original poster
MyNameHasBeenTaken · 26/01/2020 10:40

Thanos
I would like to think she wants to help, but have felt for a long time that "taking over" seemed to fit more

OP posts:
HoppingPavlova · 26/01/2020 10:42

This all sounds very dysfunctional.

DontDribbleOnTheCarpet · 26/01/2020 10:59

I think you need to get the screen fixed (it's a shame if he loses some games, but he can re-download them, surely?) and let Claire sort out the new phone. Buying a contract phone for someone else's child is massively overstepping and she can sort out the consequences of that.

Something about the dynamic between Claire and the children feels "off" to me. I've know a couple of ostentatiously mothering types who like to take in other people's children and massively overstep any boundaries, I think to show what wonderful, caring people they are. They actually caused a lot of damage but will never see that. I hope that Claire is just overdoing it and it's nothing more sinister.

ThunderboltandLightning · 26/01/2020 11:11

If he backs his phone up using Google, you can get the screen replaced and then redownload his entire profile. It will match identically, no loss of game progress or other stuff that is important to teens. Get the phone store to help you if needs be.

DisplayPurposesOnly · 26/01/2020 11:13

I wondered IF I should be doing anything about it?
Should I be offering to pay? I cant afford another contract. I already have one for luke.

Nope. All Claire's problem. She did this without any consultation with you.

I'd just say very simply, "Sorry, I can't afford to pay for it. It's best you decide what you'd like to do."

If the consensus was "it was given to luke, it is Luke's " then I guess I would have to look at "buying the contract" somehow.

Again, Claire's moral dilemma, NOT yours.

SoupDragon · 26/01/2020 11:14

Samsung would have wiped everything on it when they replaced the screen.

Really? That's utterly shit service! (Which is not relevant to the thread 😂)

RubyandMax · 26/01/2020 11:18

Claire's phone.

Weird thing for her to do though.

AdachiOljulo · 26/01/2020 11:24

They took it out, they keep it, they pay

Luke should have his old phone back obviously.

Blibbyblobby · 26/01/2020 11:26

Really? That's utterly shit service! (Which is not relevant to the thread 😂)

It’s because they usually just swap it for a new phone. Then they know waterproofing etc is intact. (That’s a Samsung centre return. Obviously independent repairers do just repair the same phone)

As a PP said, you should be able to back your full profile up to google and restore it. However in practice I found some stuff like settings didn’t transfer and has to be reinstalled, I think because it’s locked to the phone’s hardware id. I also had to set up my biometrics again.