11+ nonsense rant

[fklps]

Hi All, my son has already sat exams for four schools in South West London and I, like many other parents, am going through the dreadful wait for results in February.

I find it puzzling that no one ever talks about what an utter nonsense this whole process is or how damaging it can be for a child's self esteem. My son has always been a middle set kid, yet very enthusiastic and self-confident. Not shy at all! I never tutored him, nor pushed him hard during his primary school years as I've always wanted him to be a child. There is enough pressure in adult life to start worrying at 11! Suddenly, we stumble upon these horror numbers: 900 kids or more, competing for an average of 80-100 places at the four schools he is applying for. This is ridiculous! I'm sure all those 900 kids are very special in their own individual ways!

Then one reads the newspapers and encounter all these articles about teenage anxiety, depression, suicide in numbers that are particularly high in British universities. I mean, no wonder!

I live in an area of SW London where state secondary schools are not particularly good. The best one is Catholic and that would not be an option for us. If we really care about children's wellbeing in this country, it is time to start putting pressure on the government to really improve the state secondary system. There are not enough independent schools and the good state school get also massive number of applicants. I'm sorry, but this is not fair on the children. I tend to be a very cheerful person but quite frankly I've felt sick since all this process started in January and I really hope my son gets a place in a nice school where he can continue to grow into a confident and healthy adult.

@noblegiraffe I don’t live in London. What pressure are kids put through in London to apply to a good local state school?

I do. None.

I get that puts pressure on the parents, Red , to live in the right area, but there’s no pressure on the kids as there’s nothing for them to do.

So in that area you’re talking about super selectives, there are no selective but not superselective “safe” state options. V long shot and many DC will have been heavily tutored by a paid tutor, prep school and/or parent.

Sounds like you didn’t really have a plan for secondary.

Which is not to say that the education system doesn’t have big issues - clearly it does.

I can't comment on the English system, but in Scotland most people go to the local state comprehensive. After second year, when kids are like 14ish they are streamed into sets - so like 1,2 and 3. What I appreciated about this system is that I excelled at English but was dire at maths... I was in top sets for languages but middle of the road for biology and history. At break times and lunch people from all the sets mix together and so on...what I'm trying to say is that I feel sorry for the kids are who are streamed so early on but who may be late bloomers or may excel in one subject but not others. It's tough.

Another point I'd like to make about comprehensive schools is that - I genuinely feel I can talk to anyone...and actually I do have to in my line of work. But I can tell straight away the colleagues who went to single sex school or private schools etc because they generally struggle to know how to address ordinary people. I honestly feel that sometimes they are afraid. Anyway, good luck. 💐

If you put your child into private school for primary, you've already decided that he is better than state school or that state school isn't good enough. And the corollary of that decision is that you end up putting your child on the selective train where your poor 10 year old feels like an utter failure if they don't pass not just one but several exams and get turned down by several schools.

It's a misery of your own making. And your last post about just wanting him to be happy rings very hollow. You didn't have to put him through this, you chose to. At least own it.

And when you say 'good state' you mean super selective grammar'. For the avoidance of doubt for those who think it's necessary to make a child jump through these hoops to get a secondary school place in London. It's not, it's a choice.

Yes, in OP’s situation she had choices, presumably the means to pay for housing close to a popular non selective, or time to rock up to church. Many people in London have far fewer choices.

@Clymene I agree with every word you've posted.

"Oh, isn't it awful that I have to put my darling child through this?"

No, you don't.

I'm from London. My eldest child is in Year 4 and academically bright. The chance of me forcing her through this shitty elitist torture is zero.

Having read your update, I think you're in denial.

University students on sport scholarships are under massive pressure to represent their institution even if it costs them their health. If you have Netflix, there is a documentary called Cheer which is about a university cheer squad. These kids are expected to train even though they are injured because sport success is money for the school.

There are English schools that offer scholarships in music. There are state schools with tests where they award a place to kids with an aptitude for subjects like music or languages. It is a tiny proportion of their final intake though.

By going private you are saying to your son that state isn't good enough for him. Unfortunately going to the "right" independent does increase the odds of going to the top unis or doing well in certain jobs. Independent schools are often all about the destination of their Leavers as that's what attracts the high paying parents. They do it so "well" that they can afford to open schools in China to attract rich people there. The competition aspect will probably be far worse at an independent that's not 3-18 but you've chosen to subject your son to the craziness because you presumably think it's worth it,

It's fine to wish that kids didn't have to do exams but you could have avoided subjecting your son to 11+ stress by picking a 3-18 school or moving house.

@doritosdip This whole application process to good schools seems to demand a level of preparedness from the parents that I indeed did not contemplate (or perhaps you're right, I evaded).

The bottom line is, however, as a society we are also in denial or have been too accepting of the fact that graduates who come from the independent sector -which is the same to say those with more money- end up gaining access to top jobs, even when there are equally prepared counterparts from the state sector. I am sorry, it is true, this is an elitist society. I lived in the US for a very long time and have family there, who have worked themselves up to the top right from the very bottom. It is a beautiful thing to witness, I know many American dream achiever, and I only wish it was the same here.

The numbers in Britain say it all. The field of law, politics, medicine, even arts are dominated by those who went to schools where they met "the right people," "the right contacts" for the future. If you think that only about 9% of the population goes to the independent sector this is outrageous. By hoping to send my kids to a good independent school I am not feeding the "Victorian" style system, I am trying to give him opportunities because of the reality we face. Also, we have all been compliant to this society, where those who have money or royal blood are automatically considered superior, better for the jobs. The solution, more funding for state schools and more programs that work to integrate successful children from the state sector into the highly paid professions.

I know finally Oxford has decided to accept more children from the state sector now, and there is push to change things in the art sector, etc but we're in the 21st Century for goodness sake! this should've been the case since the end of Victorian times!

Hope you didn’t vote Conservative.

Then you shouldn't have entered him for the 11+

Be thankful you’re not in Northern Ireland where the transfer system gets to traumatise huge swathes of kids every year.

I am 37 and still remember taking my 11+... i quite enjoyed it

The level of parental/paid tutoring in London is well known.

The US isn’t any better in equality terms! Probably more so due to benefits and healthcare policy.