Can school ask me to collect excluded child straightaway?

[neddle]

I’ve recently been told that it’s against the law for my sons’ schools to tell me to collect him during the day when excluded.
I never thought anything of it at the time, but looking at a government website it says not.
But I’ve had three schools now (2 different sons) ask me to collect them straightaway.
Should I be refusing or not?

Btw, if anyone has some great ideas of how to deal with an undiagnosed demand-avoidant, possibly adhd 14yo being excluded from school more than he’s actually there, I’d love to hear them.

I don't know what the legal position is, but I think it's understandable that if a child is excluded for good reason, then they want him off the premises as quickly as possible. If you're not able to make it - which is also completely understandable, not everyone can be there in half an hour - then they should supervise him until you can collect.

If your son is demand-avoidant and the school are very jaded with a "you can't make me" attitude from him, be prepared for them to be fairly humourless about encountering the same attitude from you!

www.gov.uk/government/publications/school-exclusion

This might be helpful, if you haven’t already seen it. Best of luck, sounds really challenging for you and your sons.

Nothing to contribute on the legalities, but if you are at work (or say you are), hard cheese to them.

As the mother of a (now grown up) DS with ASD and ADHD I had a fair few calls basically saying X has been naughty/ is excluded for 24 hours can you come and get him now. My response was always that I would come when I had finished work. Nothing changes by getting yourself into trouble in order to run over there.

Remember the school had no idea where you are and what you are doing. I had one such call and was able to say perfectly honestly that I was in Edinburgh that day (we lived in London) ;)

I’m not sure about illegal. If your child is behaving in a way that threatens their safety or that of others then what would you prefer school to do?

At 14, once they've contacted you they can send him off the premises whether you collect him or not.

It's really hard for parents but schools are often dealing with numerous of these, as well as trying to educate all the others.

When they are ringing you to send him home is this a proper exclusion, complete with the paperwork to go with it? Or is it a case of 'you need to come and collect your son because he's being naughty'. The latter is illegal but happens alllllllll the time in schools.

Different circumstances but when my son's former school were trying to send him home for being badly behaved I would refuse to come and collect him until they emailed me the exclusion paperwork. A few times they backpedalled and said he could stay until the end of the day when they DID exclude him on a fixed term basis. However when they (illegally) permanently excluded him I was expected to come and collect him there and then.

If your son has an ECHP if they are repeatedly excluding him then they should have called an emergency annual review by now. If he doesn't have an ECHP it would be well worth applying for one.
Are you aware of the facebook page 'not fine in school'. The people that post on there have loads of info when it comes to school exclusions and what the law is.

When a child is excluded the school need to follow safeguarding procedure to ensure he is collected by an adult.

They will hold him until you collect him.

There are a lot of people who use the word 'illegal' incorrectly. Illegal is in fact a legal term, it indicate that something is against the law. Many use it to describe something that is not advised. That however doesn't mean illegal.

Personally I'd be collecting him ASAP when they ask, he has probably disrupted the working/learning day enough with his behaviour, I'd be removing him when they asked.

Why was he excluded? Was he violent?

This seems a minuscule issue compared with the matter at hand. If your reaction to your son being excluded (again?!) is to criticise the school about when he's collected, then I think you need to refocus! You need to look into managing your son's condition better and think about where he'd be best placed. It's not just the school's responsibility.

Most have bare minimal help with additional needs and it's disruptive, and often frightening, for teachers and other children.

Mlou32

Have a read of this.

I can assure you that the way my sons former school excluded him was very much illegal. This being a public forum though thats routinely trawled by the gutter press means I have absolutely no wish, want, need or desire to go into detail though.

I wouldn’t use the term “illegal” but more “unlawful” (there is a difference)
Schools have a responsibility to educate, however in my experience, schools seem to move more to unlawful exclusion or unlawful part time timetables to deal with children that require more support. Of course this is totally unacceptable and mostly happens due to a lack of experience with extra support needs for children and a lack of budget within schools to deal with such situations. Personally I would not be accepting a school constantly dealing with such a situation as OP describes with exclusion as it’s unlawful and they must educate all children. It’s basically them washing their hands of any children that they can’t cope with for what ever reason it may be. You need to force the school to own up that they can’t cope with your child and get them to help you find a way forward that still includes a education for your child. If that means the school will need to request extra funds for support staff or courses for the teachers then it must be done and usually you have to push hard for it.

At 14, once they've contacted you they can send him off the premises whether you collect him or not.

No, they can't. They still have responsibility for the child's safety and would need to know that, for instance, he can get into the house at the very least.

OP, you should be given notice of your right to challenge exclusions, and it does sound as if the school is not necessarily doing what it should in terms of meeting your child's special educational needs. You need to talk to the SENCO about whether they have involved an educational psychologist, and whether you should apply for an EHC Plan.

I think it depends on the reason. If he’s assaulted or physically harmed another child especially a younger one I think it’s fair to a say he should be collected ASAP.
Being ‘cheeky’ or whatever, can’t they just have done sort of cool-down room he can sit and do work in?

If he's been violent then you should collect him straight away or the heas may phone the police to collect him. That's what happened in a school I worked in. No spare staff to watch an angry, violent teen and prevent him harming himself or others.

Genuinely struggling to understand why you wouldn't collect him (if you're able to of course). Are you trying to make a point? Sounds like he's not the only demand-avoidant one...

Kids tend not to get excluded for "being a bit cheeky".

At our school, if the child gets excluded and the parent can't pick up straight away, the child is put into Isolation until a parent can get there.

Ya know, if I'd had two kids excluded at 3 schools I can't say this would be my biggest concern really.

If their behaviour is so bad that school feel the need to exclude; they should be removed from the premises with all possible speed, yes.
Would you seriously not collect when asked if someone told you the school couldn’t force you to?

If you are at work, can a relative collect him? Schools like you to provide a couple of contacts, as back up.
Although there are times when you are genuinely unable to collect and your back ups are also genuinely unavailable, you should really make sure this is not the norm because you know your children are problematic for the school and their job is to educate, not child mind. If they've decided to exclude your child then really you ought to collect asap.

My ADHD-diagnosed ds was excluded from school several times. Each time I would be at the school as soon as possible to pick him up. It simply would not have occurred to me not to - the school had legitimate reasons to exclude DS and at the end of the day he's MY responsibility! I felt like the school and I worked closely to support my son whilst he was there but ultimately if he was significantly interfering with others' learning or there were safeguarding issues then of course they had to take steps and I needed to respect that. And my son needed to see the consequences of his actions and to see the school and I were united.

Why wouldn’t you want to go and get them immediately? You’re there mother. It’s your job!

You say your son is undiagnosed, op. Who’s telling you his behaviour is anything more than him being, you know, badly behaved?
Why have you picked these labels out of the air that no clinician has seen fit to diagnose? Excuses, perhaps?

Has he been assessed by CAHMS?

If my child had been excluded more than once and I believed they had ADHD, I'd be banging on every door possible to get a diagnosis. Unfortunately, far too many parents are now saying it's ADHD when it's just poor behaviour. I've taught many children with a diagnosis, some on medication, others not. Most of them have not been excluded because they've not done anything to justify this.
OP, by not collecting your child when they've been excluded, you're sending the message to him that you don't care about him, or don't agree with the school so will just leave him there. Either way, what does this say about you as a parent?