Homelessness and alcoholism

[vivacian]

There's a man sleeping rough at the top of our street, refusing assistance from any services because he wants to drink. When he's fairly sober he's fairly civil (I chat to him). When he's in his cups he's aggressive.

My approach with beggars is to give them my time, but nothing else such as money or clothes that will prolong their time on the streets. With this guy, I struggle. I am tempted to buy him socks and gloves despite knowing that anything he is given that he can sell, he sells.

But it got me thinking. Some homeless people just want to drink. Would it better to house and feed them, give them access to showers, toilets and health care and accept that they are going to drink themselves to their deaths?

I think the PP means that there is always hostels willing to take you in and the council would find you somewhere and so why sleep on streets.

If that's the case, the PP is living in cloud cuckoo land.

It should be the way but it’s not

We can't because there simply isn't the money to provide so many single, secure units or enough services to help people.

We are one of the richest countries in the world. This just can't be true. I wonder what international comparisons would show. You couldn't just take guidance from the countries with the lowest rates.

I think the PP means that there is always hostels willing to take you in and the council would find you somewhere and so why sleep on streets.

In my city the charities and authorities are constantly saying that there are enough beds for everyone who wants one.

of course there's enough to go round!
the problem is that it's not shared out fairly the people at the top are hoarding as much as they can
People at the bottom struggle to get even the basic necessities of life whilst they live in the shadows of the vast homes and fortunes of the wealthy.
the people at the bottom fighting over crumbs leading dysfunctional lives which lead to addiction and other social problems

we are one of the richest countries in the world but we also have one at the highest levels of inequality (the gini coefficient)
Yes we are rich but most of the wealth is hoarded by the elites who look down on high and laugh at the people struggling to get by at the bottom

@vivacian
In my city the charities and authorities are constantly saying that there are enough beds for everyone who wants one.

This implies, and perpetuates the myth, that those who don't have a bed don't want one and it is not the same in every City or Local Authority. @WorraLiberty has already mentioned some of the reasons why some people may be refused or not want a bed in the place they are offered.

The original statement where the PP believes there really is no reason to sleep on the streets in the UK is very short sighted, IMO. There are a Myraid of reasons. Its not quite as simple as saying there is a bed, sleep in it.

I agree with the PP who said some people can’t / won’t be helped. I work for a supported accommodation provider for vulnerable adults and we have had people choose the streets over the homes we provide. The properties are a good standard, equipped with all furniture including white goods and fully covered by housing benefit. There is a small weekly charge for utilities / council tax that is deducted directly from benefit. We provide food parcels, support to reduce debt and access substance misuse services. Living with us even increases their priority with the council! What more can be done for them? We get Street Wardens ringing us to ask why Mr X is on the streets begging again.

People who are dysfunctional get locked into traps where they continually self sabotage, I'm not saying this to exonerate them of the self sabotage, imo these are very complex issues which require sophisticated interventions
when we see people who are completely dysfunctional and antisocial often the knee-jerk response is to shun them because we fear them and we don't want to have to deal with their anti-social behaviour ...understandably, but this makes it difficult to feel as if they deserve or warrant sophisticated and sympathetic interventions

the properties are a good standard
I agree it's very hard to understand why a homeless person would reject this, I suppose they get to a state of mind where they instinctively reject and shun anything to do with conventional/ normal society because of their experiences in life?
(not trying to excuse them just trying to understand what might be going on)

I would want to be kind to him, and make sure he is warm enough and has some food. He might be choosing to spend money on drink but I expect he didn’t choose to be an alcoholic.

Yes UYScuti I think you’re right.

If you think of a dog that's been abused by it's owners the animal is in so much fear it can't let anyone near it, when you have been treated as if you are no longer human this is the state that you are reduced to, lashing out at everyone because life has taught you that you are never safe and you are just too far gone now😔

I do think he should be offered help and treatment but it’s up to him if he wants to take it. I don’t think it should be an option for him to hang around harassing people in a public street though. Nuisance beggars need to be dealt with appropriately.

I agree it's very hard to understand why a homeless person would reject this, I suppose they get to a state of mind where they instinctively reject and shun anything to do with conventional/ normal society because of their experiences in life?

Yes. I've also heard one person's story that it was just too bloody lonely to be in a flat all day and all night.

I do think he should be offered help and treatment but it’s up to him if he wants to take it. I don’t think it should be an option for him to hang around harassing people in a public street though. Nuisance beggars need to be dealt with appropriately.

Yes, he's moved to our neighbourhood due to an order preventing him from entering his previous area (aggression, shoplifting, begging etc.).