Anne Sacoolas extradition to the UK after Harry Dunn death

[LissJas]

 Anne Sacoolas: Extradition notice sent to US for diplomat's wife over Harry Dunn death news.sky.com/story/anne-sacoolas-extradition-notice-sent-to-us-for-diplomats-wife-over-harry-dunn-death-11905753

Apologies if the link doesn't work, I've never tried one before.

I'm wondering what others' opinions are about whether she will actually get what's coming to her? She disgusts me, to be honest. The circumstances are clear-cut that she was at fault and she's just run away from the whole thing! I'm very curious as to whether the US will grant the extradition notice. Gut feeling says no.

What does everyone else think??

I agree, she won't be extradited. But i hope that the UK justice system will hunt her for the rest of her life. I hope she won't be able to travel anymore as any self respecting county will deliver her straight to the uk...

That’s going to cause problems with her husbands job then isn’t it? I suppose he has been outed now no matter what happens.

Has America ever extradited anyone?

When it suits them.

It's worth reminding ourselves (because the UK press certainly won't, and the US hates it being mentioned. So here it is ) that a few extraditions to the US have been refused by the UK (although I bet people like Boris and his cabal were frothing at the mouth). Gary McKinnon for a start. There was also a case where the UK refused to extradite a wanted suspected paedophile because US justice is not up to scratch when it comes to human rights

www.theguardian.com/law/2015/oct/07/british-court-refuses-to-extradite-suspected-american-paedophile

Also no extradited person can be faced with the death penalty, which again, US authorities hate. (Canada will also refuse to extradite if the death penalty is a possibility. Again, the US hates this).

So the US doesn't have it all it's own way all the time. Just for some reason you rarely hear about it.

Worth watching the upcoming Assange circus, as if it can be shown he would face inhumane treatment in the US, he's not going either.

No, of course it's not proper justice. That would be standing trial.

She's not coming back nor should she. The Uk signed up to this treaty knowing full well what it meant and what the ramifications would be. The international intelligence community relies on it. She didn't mean to kill him. It's ludicrous that you drive on the right on US bases in the uk. I'd try to change that. It's also appalling that he waited 45 minutes for an ambulance...he was alive and talking after the accident. He could have been saved. I'd more focus on what you can change. The Uk isn't going to bail out of the Vienna convention, nor should it.

"It is the protection given under international and UK law to foreign diplomats and their families. It was formalised through the 1961 Vienna convention on diplomatic relations (VCDR), which was incorporated into domestic law by the 1964 Diplomatic Privileges Act. The reciprocal global agreements also protect UK diplomats working abroad."

Also, a country can choose to remove immunity from their national if they choose, in order for the host country to investigate/charge/try a person - if indeed A.S. was ever covered by diplomatic immunity.

Pretty certain the UK has done so in the past when a diplomat has exceeded the bounds of what is expected of them. Not just the UK. Most countries would waive immunity if a prima facie criminal case was made against a diplomat.

Diplomatic immunity was only ever intended to allow diplomats to go about their business without fear of trumped up allegations. It wasn't intended to allow diplomats to become the local Al Capones of a country.

Out of curiosity, assuming that she had stayed, what do you think would have been 'appropriate punishment', OP?

Out of curiosity, assuming that she had stayed, what do you think would have been 'appropriate punishment', OP?

It's what a court - properly constituted and having heard the charges and evidence decides, though, isn't it ? As is the way things should be handled in a country that places law and order at the heart of civic life.

There's far too much of the Wild West about the US as it is. And it seems rather than their growing up and more responsible, as should be expected, there's a distinct movement in the UK to make it more like that. With vigilante lynch mobs popping up all over Facebook to gladhand them ....

They do NOT drive on the right on US bases in the UK! Her diplomatic immunity was a "special agreement" not under the Vienna convention . So the whole thing stinks, I wonder what effect this is having on her mental health? whatever it is she deserves it for running away.

Re the q about what's an appropriate sentence.

Causing death by dangerous driving is always a custodial sentence in this country.

So, jail.

Actually a gentleman I knew has a death by dangerous driving charge he served no time it was 20 years ago so the law may have moved on?

I think returning to the UK and facing our criminal justice process would be the first stage in appropriateness!

And yes, to have the punishment handed down to her by a UK court. I cannot imagine that she would escape a custodial sentence.

But that's a good point actually, life as she knew it is over. Everyone will know what she's done and I hope her husband facing consequences as a result of her wife's behaviour - official or not.

The other stuff that's happening to her will be her punishment: that's her husband's career over now, everyone she knows will be aware of what she's done, she will need to be careful about which countries she travels to. It's not nothing, I suppose.

This is what I think.

There is no way she is coming back here to face up to the charge, no way at all.

She didn't mean to kill him.

And yet, through her own incompetence, she did. Like many other people who "accidentally" kill someone, she would have had to face the consequences" if she hadn't run away.

At the time she left she was permitted to do so. She didn’t flee unlawfully and I can’t blame her for not dining back.

If I was in a foreign country and committed a crime and was permitted to return home you can bet your life I’d take that opportunity.

The issue of whether she actually had diplomatic immunity is quite complex and I'm not sure we can assume her decision to flee was made on that basis. For all we know she'd have legged it without being sure.

If I was in a foreign country and committed a crime and was permitted to return home you can bet your life I’d take that opportunity.

You'd still have to deal with the consequences of everyone thinking (in this case) you were a coward who had killed a 19 year old and run away.

Is it possible, in the UK, to hold a trial where the defendent is tried in absentia? (I am not from the UK)

I know of a case from about five years ago where a man was convicted of death by dangerous driving, but was not given a custodial sentence - the judge said it wasn't in the public interest (man was in his 80s and his actions caused the death of his passenger - his wife of 60 years): so it's not completely given that she'd have a custodial sentence if convicted, I don't think. (Man mentioned above a) had immediately surrendered licence in aftermath of accident and b) plead guilty when it finally came to court, which may have influenced sentencing?)

Surely she has none or few friends in the US now they know what she's done ? Her life must be miserable and so it should be! She still gets to tuck her children in bed each night when thanks to her Harry's mum will never hold him again or have justice how a mother can do that to another mother is disgusting

It's technically possible but doesn't happen a lot. I know there are some very strict limitations on trial in absentia, not sure what they are.

I have a feeling that the us generally expects other countries to send people but won't return the favour.

Also diplomatic immunity was put in to stop dodgy countries putting people away they didn't like on iffy charges, that sort of thing. In practice there have been loads of awful stuff done. I seem to remember a story about a man who kidnapped a woman held her for months, got her pregnant, she escaped at about 8 months pregnant or something, they couldn't touch him. This sort of thing, is not in the sport l spirit of what it's for at all.

In practice there have been loads of awful stuff done
of course, predators will always be attracted to situations where they can abuse and exploit with impunity

You'd still have to deal with the consequences of everyone thinking (in this case) you were a coward who had killed a 19 year old and run away

Maybe, maybe not. I think on MN it’s easy for people to call her a coward and say she should face the music.

In reality would most people give up their freedom and deprive their DC of a mother because of a mistake? I doubt it. Despite it being east to claim they would.

If she was my friend in the circumstances I suspect I’d consider that she’d made a pragmatic decision.