Moving abroad (Canada in particular) vs staying in UK

[HopelesslydevotedtoGu]

We've been discussing whether to move abroad for ages, and can't seem to reach a decision.

The country we are considering is Canada, where we could get jobs and move on a work permit initially then gain PR and citizenship. Our careers are in demand in Canada and we could live in lots of different areas, not just the big cities. Looking at BC but could live in other provinces too.

There are various pros and cons, but the questions it boils down to each time are

THE BIG QUESTION

• is it good for our kids to have another citizenship? (dh and I would find it easy to get jobs abroad, we don't know if our kids will have the same options. In general countries seem to be becoming more selective about immigration, and we think climate change migration will exacerbate this, so our kids being dual citizens when they are adults will mean they will have more options in life. UK doesn't seem good at planning sensibly for the future, not sure if Canada any better but at least dc will have a choice of where to live!)

The other questions

• are the advantages of Canada better than seeing grandparents regularly? We have no extended family in Canada, we are wondering how much of a disadvantage that will be for our children (we are not very close to our parents ourselves, but our kids love seeing them. We currently see each set once a month. If we stayed in UK we would consider moving closer to one set of grandparents for the kids benefit, which would have pros and cons in terms of lifestyle. We would offer our parents the option to move to Canada on a family visa, however I think they would decline)
• is Canada a better place for kids to grow up? In terms of wellbeing, education, activities and in particular future opportunities. In the UK it feels like you have to earn a lot to have a good quality of life (which we do, but obviously we don't know what our dc will do as adults)

We keep going round in circles. I'd be grateful for any advice.

Fantastic place to bring up children and the quality of life is far superior to the UK ..
You will be giving your children wonderful opportunities if you go ...

Do you live there babbi? What do you think makes the quality of life superior?

Do you know what the prospects are for people with different incomes? Friend of friend who lived there previously said outside of the two big cities someone on a middling income would have a much better quality of life than in UK due to housing being more reasonably priced to wages. We want somewhere our dc can have good opportunities even if they don't have a high paid career. In UK it feels cost of housing inhibits this (and cheap areas often have few job options and poor public services)

I've only been to Canada once so I guess my experience is limited but I found it horribly boring. They were very interested in sports and a lot of places seemed to lack diversity, history or community. I accept this is just my impression as a visitor BUT I did confess my thoughts to my Canadian friend and she agreed. She much prefers where we live (Scotland) and thinks it feels much more 'alive'.

I can see it might be a nice quality of life and a change of scene but I don't think I could give up the grandparent relationship. My brother in law and sister in law emigrated to America with their kids and it has massively affected my PIL, although they put a brave face on.

Also considering this move, although we are closer to the grandparents and the children see them a couple times a week.
We do have family in Canada though. I think the grandparents would never forgive us mind you.

Good luck with your decision.

Ive lived half of my life in Canada and half in Scotland.
I agree you get a better quality of life if you are on lower salaries .
Better climate , healthy sporty outlook , houses larger for less money , focus on quality of life ...
great opportunities for those who are prepared to work hard ...

Bit of a shit attitude in general to their First Nations people - even amongst the sort who equate to the Guardian-reading classes. And have you checked that you are eligible? Their points system is quite easy to work out, but when I was in my early 30s, with a number of post-graduate degrees and no disabilities, I didn't have enough to qualify just to go without being sponsored for a work permit.

How much of a wrench will you find it when your parents get older and/or are dying? Don't underestimate the stress that puts on you, even if you aren't clise/sentimental/guilt-ridden. Also, if you have siblings in the UK, don't underestimate the potential for the amount of friction it will cause with you "swanning in" (obviously, you won't be, but your putative siblings might not see it this way) from time to time, when the daily drudgery of caring falls on them.

Also, if this is just a whim, don't underestimate how hard it can be to emigrate - just the practicalities and a new system can be very stressful - or the effect of separating your children from grandparents to whom they are currently somewhat close. Facetime and Skype really isn't the same. And when you are the one who moves, essentially, the onus is always on you to spend your leave "going home".

I'm definitely not saying don't - but if it's only to give your children a second citizenship, I really wouldn't. They can make that choice for themselves as adults, if necessary.

Live just outside of Vancouver (from here) now but have lived in the U.K. a lot too.

The quality of life here is much better. Education in my experience is better and less stressful for children. It's just approached differently. But the cost of living really depends where you decide to live. Toronto/Vancouver and the Greater Areas surrounding each area painfully expensive unless you're comparing London living to here.

PS I found the previous poster's comment on the obsession with sports amusing.. when I lived in the U.K. everybody there breathed football, cricket or rugby. I don't know a single person here interested in any sports with the exception of my friend's American husband who loves NFL.

The citizenship thing is nothing special. My son has three (british, Canadian and American) and I have two .. doesn't really make a jot of difference in our lives.

Thanks for all the replies.

And have you checked that you are eligible?
Yes we definitely are as one of our careers is in very high demand in Canada.
We would likely need to go on a work permit initially and apply for PR after 1-2 years (I've checked out the requirements and streams), so there is that uncertainty of being on work permit initially (eg if fell ill and couldn't work might need to leave).

just the practicalities and a new system can be very stressful
yes I agree with this, even if it is fantastic there will be periods when we are struggling to settle in and deal with the unfamiliar.

How much of a wrench will you find it when your parents get older and/or are dying?
Variable for different parents, in honesty I think there's only one who'd we be sad to be so far away from. Good reasons for that though.

But the cost of living really depends where you decide to live. Toronto/Vancouver and the Greater Areas surrounding each area painfully expensive
we could live in lots of different places in Canada, we would want to avoid the more expensive areas

The citizenship thing is nothing special. My son has three (british, Canadian and American) and I have two .. doesn't really make a jot of difference in our lives.
I think this might become more of an issue in the future though. Quite a few countries are electing more right-wing governments with interest in controlling immigration. There will be lots of climate migration in future. Dh and I would find it easy to get a visa to work in many countries and naturalize, but our dc may not be in careers like ours. If the UK ends up a less good place to live, I don't want our dc to be stuck here.

ah, the MN generalisation problem. I live in the UK and don't know anyone with more than the vaguest interest with the ball-chucking spectator sports. Plenty do (given the attendance at the matches) but as a proportion of the population - nah.

Remember that sitting in a stand watching isn't an interest in sport, it's just live TV.

I grew up in Canada, but now live in the UK.

I'm always massively curious when people talk about quality of life- surely that is partly subjective? Is a bigger house and yard really the be all and end all?

Bigger centres are expensive, cheaper ones are more isolated.

Whereabouts in BC were you thinking?

My observations:
Many rural areas in Canada have zero public transportation .

Many rural areas are quite isolated . The small town I grew up in is 15 mins away from anywhere else, including the nearest cinema/ bowling etc.

There are way more travel options in the UK.

I also disagree about opportunity- here, we are spoiled for choice when it comes to university etc.

The student loan system is much more manageable here.

Utilities are getting quite steep over there.

Most of my nieces and nephews have had limited travel opportunities, but they have grown up being able to snowmobile/ quad etc.

It is very very difficult raising children on my own. As in, birthdays, Christmas...its generally just us ( and friends). I feel so guilty that my nieces and nephews have big family Christmases, while I've deprived my kids of that. Saying that, perhaps you'll have more disposable income than I do, and you'll be able to get back home more.

We're considering the same in the next year (the children and I have Canadian citizenship). Much better standard of living, IME.

By the way, if you are thinking more inland BC, there will be a ton of snow in winter, which makes travel treacherous.

Have you been to Canada?Are you sure you’d want to live in the cheaper areas, they’re cheaper for a reason. We nearly emigrated to Canada but found it very boring( Vancouver) no way would we have wanted to live further out. We realised it was actually the US we wanted to live in.

Are you absolutely sure re the points thing?My dh has a highly desirable job. Even with that and family living there it wouldn’t have been easy to get PR.

People will give you lots of generalisations about what British people and lives are like and what Canadian people and lives are like. They're generalisations. What matters is your personal experience.

What do you enjoy? What makes your life stressful that you'd like to leave behind? What makes it fun that you'd like to move towards? Are there areas of Canada where you can meet these yearnings and also get jobs?

Where we live we have a lower cost of living, lots of space, empty roads, friendly people, great schools, actual seasons, nearby beaches, mountains, lakes, skiing and other things we love. This is what we moved for.

I live near the Canadian border but not in Canada.

My experience of leaving the UK... I've never regretted it. I breathe a sigh of relief each time I leave after a visit there.

I moved to Canada and agree it is better quality of life generally, but unless you’re really outdoorsy, there’s less to do here. Like a previous poster, I’d rather be living in the US.

@holdmylobster where you live sounds amazing! Can I be nosey and ask where you are?

Is it Maine Lobster? If so I’d move there in a heart beat. Canada no thanks.

My db lives in Vancouver and would never return to live in Britain. He loves it.

Live in Québec. Have kids aged 3 and 6. There is no way I'd consider moving back to the UK. Healthcare, education, standard of living far superior to the UK.

Bear in mind that some qualifications don’t transfer. I’m in Alberta. A neighbour moved from the US, where she’d worked in an ER for 20 years. Wasn’t allowed to put a plaster on here without requalifying.

Getting sponsored for a work permit is much harder now than it was 8 years ago.

Rural living can be tough. I live in an unusual place, a 4 hour drive from the nearest city (the nearest IKEA, Costco etc).

I’m a Canadian and moved to the UK 15 years ago. I love the UK! But I’ve been considering moving back home. I love Canada too! I’m originally from just outside Vancouver. I won’t be moving back there, although I’d like to, because of the cost of living. Thinking of moving East where housing is much cheaper. One of the things stopping me from moving home is the annual leave, you get 2 weeks, if you’re lucky 3 😲. I love travelling so this is giving me pause.
I’m not sure if the standard of living is better in Canada, just different. Houses are definitely cheaper and bigger. But you’d definitely want to live close to a biggish city because public transportation is rubbish.

One of the things stopping me from moving home is the annual leave, you get 2 weeks, if you’re lucky 3 😲. I love travelling so this is giving me pause.

^

Not to contradict you, dreaming, but I work for a global organisation and get 4 weeks. I think provincial holidays total around 9 days, so similar to the UK.

Our house is definitely cheaper and bigger than what we'd be able to afford in the UK. We do live within 45 mins of a major metropolis.

As the sibling of someone who emigrated long haul, have you considered who will support your parents as they age?

I resent my sibling hugely. They have completely ducked out and haven't a clue how much extra pressure they've put on me.

Not to mention our own opportunity for relocation which we ad to decline because that would have left our parents without any support at all.

I agree about the annual leave thing, too. I miss my 5.2 weeks. That part sucks about Canada.

I'd suggest east coast (the Maritimes) or Alberta (Calgary or Edmonton) if you want a good balance of quality of life without massive cost of living. Both are insanely cold in the wintertime though.