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Original poster

To be fascinated by Ronnie and Reggie

98 replies

londongirl86 · 22/12/2019 16:22

I've randomly read a book about Ronnie and Reggie kray after watching legend. It's interesting because without a doubt they did some horrendous things and were violent but they also seemed to treat the innocent with alot of respect and kindness. It's crazy that men who murdered and did all those things were also liked by celebrities. I know there are gangs still and gangsters but not like these. They were known all over the UK.

I don't doubt they deserved to go to prison for what they did. But It seems weirdly sad they were seperated and unable to see eachother anymore. Although in this day and age Ronnie would of been treated properly for his illness as he clearly was mentally unwell. Also the whole tradgedy around Reggie's first wife and her suicide. All seems such an interesting yet sad era.

OP posts:
MyGhastIsFlabbered · 23/12/2019 07:28

My Nan always used to say 'say what you like about them, at least you were safe to walk down the street'...given thar my Nan grew up in a tiny Welsh mining village, I'm not quite sure how she became an authority on London life!

WakeyShakey · 23/12/2019 11:10

Hmm yes, let me see...
Demanding money with menaces.
Murder.
Torture.
Domestic violence.
Underage sex.
Thuggery and violence.
Blackmail.
Bribery.
Witness intimidation.
Jury nobbling.
But hey, they loved their mum and were kind to old ladies.

Toddlerteaplease · 23/12/2019 12:20

I've met twins called Ronnie and Reggie and also a baby called Kray. Poor kids.

feelingverylazytoday · 23/12/2019 12:58

My late MIL (who was a proper cockney) used to come out with the 'they looked after their own/they loved their old Mum' lines. Presumably she didn't know about the noncing, I don't think she would have accepted that.
I suppose it's a combination of Stockholm syndrome and a deeply held belief that you never ever grass anyone up that allowed them to hold such power.

AutumnRose1 · 23/12/2019 13:03

I’d have thought the registrar would stop “Ronnie and Reggie” for twins!

MerryChristmasUfilthyanimal · 23/12/2019 13:26

On Facebook group I'm on someone named their twins Ronnie and Reggie. It would've been against the group rules to ask if she was thick but I was curious.

longwayoff · 23/12/2019 13:51

Well said @MitziK, bizarre cult worship of these sadistic monsters.

Cruddles · 23/12/2019 14:08

Monty Python did an excellent satirical sketch about them back in the 70s. "He nailed my head to the table, but he had to"

Original poster
londongirl86 · 23/12/2019 17:20

Oh gosh calling your twins Reggie and Ronnie is so silly. individually they are nice names as old names are back (I have a Freddie) but together that's just cringey! Surely nobody hopes their twins become thugs!

OP posts:
Original poster
londongirl86 · 23/12/2019 17:23

@Feelingverylazytoday

Yeah it was obviously more of a case of if they wanted to drag you into their world you had no choice. I agree being nice to your mum doesn't justify all they did. I wonder what made them so twisted!

To be that we'll known all over country before the days of social media! Can't even imagine lol!

OP posts:
Donkeysdragonbaby · 23/12/2019 17:39

I read a book in them in my teens and said something similar to my dad- that they went after their own and kept law and order and he was really annoyed with me. We're North London, not East End but he said when he was a younger man he'd occasionally been in a pub and they or known associates of theirs had arrived and he and everyone else not involved in their game drank up and left. Said it was horrible, a bad atmosphere immediately descended because if you said or did the wrong thing that was deemed disrespectful or whatever you'd have a fight on your hands whether you liked it or not, with men who didn't just take it outside and throw a few punches. They extorted people trying to make an honest living, they paid up to spare their shops/ pubs the 'trouble' even though they'd had no trouble previously, if they refused they soon did and had to pay up to stop it. All with no recourse, you couldn't just go to the police to stop it, you'd end up beaten half to death or vanished. It's all very romanticised, usually by people who either had family and friends making their living in a similar way or by people who weren't even alive at the time and if they did lived nowhere near London, much less the East End.

misspiggy19 · 23/12/2019 17:49

Personally I find them and the glamourisation of their horrible lives repulsive.

^ I agree. They were thugs and one of them was a paedophille

Iamthewombat · 23/12/2019 17:56

Why are people attracted to the fake glamour around gangsters? They were, and are, bloody horrible people.

Nevertheless, there’s no shortage of stupid people keen to write to them or even marry them!

OP, google for an interview with Chris Lambrianou, who was, with his brother, part of the Krays’ gang and went to prison for his part in disposing of Jack ‘the hat’ McVitie’s body after the Krays killed him. After he came out of prison he turned his life around and now works with young people. He speaks very frankly about how unpleasant the Krays and people like them were, and how difficult it was for people to set up a business because somebody would come around demanding protection money and take most of your profit.

I think that the people fascinated by gangsters need to grow up. And that included the young Barbara Windsor and other celebrities who liked to be associated with bad people.

Incidentally, why have you used the phrase ‘a women’ twice, in two separate posts? Eg:

“The one who worked with a women”

Iamthewombat · 23/12/2019 18:03

The shabbiness of the gangster lifestyle, and the foolishness of the people who seek out their company, is brilliantly described in fiction in The Long Firm by Jake Arnott.

ScreamingValalalalahLalalalah · 23/12/2019 18:11

Oh, yes, wombat - the Jake Arnott books capture this era and the seediness of the gangsters and their hangers-on brilliantly. I too recommend them, OP - The Long Firm is the best one, but it's well worth reading the whole trilogy - the others are He Kills Coppers and true crime.

WireBrushAndDettolMaam · 23/12/2019 18:33

I’ve seen a few people on different fb groups who’ve named their twins Ronnie and reggie in the wake of the “Legend” film. Its instantly clear they’re thick as champ. I’m a massive Tom Hardy fan but it’s one of his films I really hate, not least because of what it’s done to romanticise the whole shitshow again. In one of the Tom Hardy groups I’m in on FB there are a few people who keep posting loads of fawning shit about the krays. And I want to scream at them that a) Tom Hardy wasn’t actually the krays so it’s fuck all to do with the group. And b) they were murdering raping scum who’d have sliced you into 3 equal parts for being seen talking to the wrong man.

Original poster
londongirl86 · 23/12/2019 19:19

@Iamthewombat that's because I was trying to work out who a separate murderer worked with. It was Ian Brady I was thinking of

I will look for that interview. I presume people like Barbara windsor befriended them because it was better than being enemies?

Yeah I think people go abit mad on Tom hardy. I don't fancy him. He plays the two parts well (did he get paid twice haha,) I suppose it's naughty of the people who make these movies and do glamorise it all.

OP posts:
TroysMammy · 23/12/2019 19:47

It's a blessing neither of them had children.

Original poster
londongirl86 · 23/12/2019 19:49

@TroysMammy I know! You'd think they'd of had a few scattered about.

Thank you @Iamthewombat I shall look now 🌝

OP posts:
AutumnRose1 · 23/12/2019 20:08

OP you will enjoy Whitechapel season 2.

Donkeysdragonbaby · 23/12/2019 21:10

'People like Barbara Windsor' didn't befriend them because they'd have been enemies otherwise, the Krays would have got on with their lives without being friends with her! They befriended them because they were like the footballers of today in a way, there were parties, clubs, hangers on, money. People knew who they were and it wasn't that everyone was terrified at all, there were lots of folk who wanted to get in with them.

Sixgeese · 23/12/2019 22:09

I walk dogs (either mine or my neighbours) through Chingford Mount cemetery quite alot.

I have been stopped so may times by people asking directions to the Kray family graves, and there are often people sitting on the bench next to them.

I tend to find the plastic flowers on their grave a bit tacky but find Frances' massive white grave sad, she was so young when she died.

Original poster
londongirl86 · 23/12/2019 22:39

@Sixgeese

It all sounds very tragic around the death of frances shea. I read that her parents didn't want her to have kray or her grave or be buried with the krays. It seems unfair that Reggie was able to make that choice. It's weird aswel that he choose to be in with Ronnie and not his wife? I've looked on Google at the graves and I expected them to be much fancier. Also Frances has a totally different style!

Its so tragic but I guess the support back then for mental health wasn't there. It seems on Google she has a niece with the same name who has been to the papers about her aunt etc.

I suppose the krays family line has died out now. Considering they had no children and their brother charlies only child has died. They don't seem to of been a big family. As pp said probably a good job. Being their child wouldn't of been easy.

OP posts:
Bluerussian · 24/12/2019 05:04

londongirl86 Mon 23-Dec-19 19:49:14
@TroysMammy I know! You'd think they'd of had a few scattered about. Being their child wouldn't of been easy.don't understand you.
........
What's all this 'of had' and 'wouldn't of'; don't understand you.

SixGeese: find Frances' massive white grave sad, she was so young when she died.
.......
I haven't seen but would have felt the same, bless you.