Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Chat

Join the discussion and chat with other Mumsnetters about everyday life, relationships and parenting.

Original poster

To be fascinated by Ronnie and Reggie

98 replies

londongirl86 · 22/12/2019 16:22

I've randomly read a book about Ronnie and Reggie kray after watching legend. It's interesting because without a doubt they did some horrendous things and were violent but they also seemed to treat the innocent with alot of respect and kindness. It's crazy that men who murdered and did all those things were also liked by celebrities. I know there are gangs still and gangsters but not like these. They were known all over the UK.

I don't doubt they deserved to go to prison for what they did. But It seems weirdly sad they were seperated and unable to see eachother anymore. Although in this day and age Ronnie would of been treated properly for his illness as he clearly was mentally unwell. Also the whole tradgedy around Reggie's first wife and her suicide. All seems such an interesting yet sad era.

OP posts:
AutumnRose1 · 22/12/2019 18:44

The only things I know about them from the series of Whitechapel based on them. I’m sort of interested but more in terms of how the police brought them down.

Patro I can’t say I have any preconceived ideas of what the Ripper’s victims were like but I have heard good things about that book.

Original poster
londongirl86 · 22/12/2019 18:46

No it's not jack the ripper either. Who was the man who died recently. Not Fred west. The one who worked with a women and lost gloves? I'm probably getting all this wrong sorry!

Never watched white chapel either.

OP posts:
AutumnRose1 · 22/12/2019 18:48

I have a weird interest in the Ratcliffe highway murders. The PD James book is good.

Patroclus · 22/12/2019 18:49

You might well think they were prostitutes Autumn? its not certain they all were. One them was swedish and the others from middle class backgrounds as well.

Ian Brady I think you mean OP

WireBrushAndDettolMaam · 22/12/2019 18:50

It's crazy that men who murdered and did all those things were also liked by celebrities.

Nah it’s pretty much how the world works. Nasty powerful white men are protected by other powerful white men.

Jimmy saville. For starters.

WorraLiberty · 22/12/2019 18:51

I don't doubt they deserved to go to prison for what they did. But It seems weirdly sad they were seperated and unable to see eachother anymore.

Yeah, bless 'em...

Original poster
londongirl86 · 22/12/2019 18:54

@Patroclus that's him. I just couldn't think. Evil horrible man! I was so sad for the boys mum who died not knowing where he is.

@WireBrushAndDettolMaam

Good point. People were too scared to go against them too I guess. I don't suppose the police wanted to take them on either.

OP posts:
Original poster
londongirl86 · 22/12/2019 18:55

@WorraLiberty I know. Its just the way the film and book make you see it. But clearly there was much more to it as I have learnt on here. Not really clued up on it.

OP posts:
WireBrushAndDettolMaam · 22/12/2019 18:58

I don't suppose the police wanted to take them on either.

They were in each other’s pockets.

AutumnRose1 · 22/12/2019 18:58

I don’t give two hoots if they couldn’t see each other.

Bluerussian · 22/12/2019 20:04

The Richardsons were on my side of the river, they had a nightclub in Catford called 'Mr Smith's', I was too young to go to it or I would have.

Someone I know had a 'nan' with a dead body dumped in her back garden, courtesy of the Krays.

They were not just gangsters, they were brutal! Both gangs were unbelievably sadistic. Reggie Kray's poor docile young wife committed suicide because he was so controlling: she had no friends and he treated her like a china doll. Awful people but very influential with friends in high places. They literally got away with murder for years and thought they were untouchable.

Peter Rachman was an unsavoury character too, slum landlord who intimidated tenants accompanied by vicious dogs, West London. Had dealings with the Krays.

They are very interesting though, I'll grant you that. It's OK to read or watch films and docs about them because that isn't real, but to be involved with anyone like that? Run a mile!

Patroclus · 22/12/2019 20:07

Weirdly one of the Richardsons attacked Ian Brady in prison 'with a cup of tea'

Patroclus · 22/12/2019 20:14

Frankie died about 5 years ago. He was apparently part native american, and you can really see that in him.

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 22/12/2019 20:41

I have known a few people who grew up close to them/had dealing with them

Some praise them and hero worship them

One in particular is scathing and said they ruled by fear they were not kind or respectful and Ronnie would often visit the local boxing club to pick up boys - no one was going to say no to him

Yes Frankie you can really see he was part Native American when it’s pointed out

Most gangsters well those at the top will show high levels of anti social behaviour, have a high levels of narcissism and actually enjoy the fear that comes along with their reputation not shame or embarrassment. Some grow out of this many do not and they carry this reputation around in prison and once they have moved on from prison. I feel for those that get involved from a young age and struggle to get out this is more prevalent now but those at the top are brutal they enjoy the power that their status brings and anyone gets in the way will pay and many like to just stay as small time gangsters they find the life exciting they don’t want to conform

FireUnderpants · 22/12/2019 20:42

My nan and great grandma are at chingford Mount.

The tourists visiting are terrible. Its ridiculous bad taste.

AutumnRose1 · 22/12/2019 20:45

Oh I didn't know there was a connection with Chingford

I did some walks in Epping Forest this summer and had a couple of people say “but the Krays buried so many people there”. Confused

FireUnderpants · 22/12/2019 20:54

They often hid out in chingford. They hid that person they broke out from prison there before killing him.

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 22/12/2019 20:55

I think most of us have an interest in the darker side of human nature or what isn’t our norm

From gangsters, and what comes along with their business drugs, prostitution, extortion to drug cartels (violence in South America is off the scale) to murderers it’s dark and often so far removed we can be fascinated from a distance and interested in what sort of people are involved

Humans are so complex what isn’t our norm is often very fascinating

AutumnRose1 · 22/12/2019 21:00

Fire so tourists come to look at...not much? Mad isn’t it.

FireUnderpants · 22/12/2019 21:11

It's a normal plot. We're unfortunately visiting a few across. People take selfies next to the headstone. Fortunately there was a couple there to help grandad this week when he fell arse over tit there.

BrendasUmbrella · 22/12/2019 21:24

they also seemed to treat the innocent with alot of respect and kindness

I hear that, but where's the proof? The landlords and business owners who had to pay the twins protections money to not have their businesses smashed up probably felt like innocents in it all. It seems like just because they didn't walk down the street stabbing everyone who passed by, they were lovely...

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 22/12/2019 21:36

I think that is part of their created personas like Robin Hood figures

This was to keep control if people didn’t conform to how they wanted them to be the kind nice side of them would soon have disappeared

They were both nasty bullies. One having a MH diagnoses does not mitigate their nasty, cruel and bullying actions

Fredy45 · 22/12/2019 21:40

I love chingford mount cemetery and used to walk through it regularly. I never saw anyone at the Kray graves but always lots of flowers there (I used to walk past it to put the occasional flowers on the crumbly graves at the back).

My in laws knew people who knew people who knew the krays and Charlie apparently told my mil that dh was cute or something when he bumped into her in some east end market - I suspect that is a crap family myth though. MIL genuinely says they never 'urt their own' and dh and I had a flaming row with her about this.

Lllot5 · 22/12/2019 21:44

@AutumnRose1
Yeah I’ve read PD James’ book on the Ratliff highway murders too very interesting.

TheresWaldo · 22/12/2019 21:47

Evil people doing evil things but it gets "romanticized"

As an aside, The Godfather is one of my favourite ever books as it sums up the horror, the loyalty, the family etc. The men fight and kill and the women go to church and pray for their souls. It's written so you have empathy for them, and I think that's what's happened with the Krays too. They were nice to their mum, and kept a rule of order in difficult times. Still cold blooded killers though.

Swipe left for the next trending thread