Victim blaming

[shouldhavecalleditoatabix]

Really interesting conversation last night on works do. Apparently a police force recently'decorated' a Christmas tree in a local church (think the kind of display where lots of charities and groups decorate a small tree) and they chose a 'woman's safety' type theme. My colleague was saying it's caused uproar because the decorations had advice for women like 'don't walk home alone' and 'don't drink too much leaving yourself vulnerable'. Bear in mind I haven't seen the tree so this is me retelling the story. My colleague was saying that women's groups were accusing the force of victim blaming and it had prompted a discussion between his wife and DD. They were all saying they understood but that it is still sound advice because of course it is still an unsafe world out there etc. I said to him, of course they are precautions a lot of women still have to take however, why are we still placing the onus on women to 'protect themselves'? Why did they not have decorations aimed at toxic male behaviour? Why not things about understanding consent? Calling out friends that are behaving that way? Reporting concerns about other males. It was like a light bulb in his mind. He saw it there and then. That's victim blaming says I. We need to turn the conversation round and put the responsibility back on the aggressors.

I found it really interesting that we are still as a society not getting that message home. It looked like it never occurred to him there was an alternative message we could be giving. Pushing men to challenge their own behaviour because in his mind it was just safety advice for women.

And bar staff have been known to spike drinks at source anyway.

Women have done the sensible things and let a friend walk them home, and they were raped.

Women have done the sensible things and took a cab home,and they were raped.

Women have stayed sober or watched their drink and they were raped.

Every day women and girls are raped by family members,friends,acquaintances, strangers. Sober or drunk. Old or young. Virgins or not. Mini skirt or thermals. It makes no difference.

The only thing these messages do is to encourage the victim blaming culture AND give a false (and dangerous)sense of security to women... if I do x,y,z it won't happen to me.

“Thing is as Hannah Gadsby point out and correctly imo, these good men need these bad men. How else will they appear to he the good guys.

The reason so few call it out is cos without it they have nothing” that’s a really interesting point I’d forgotten

But it doesn’t excuse them of course.

All men still need to be challenged we need to drum consent into them from as young an age as possible

All men still need to be challenged we need to drum consent into them from as young an age as possible

That we do.

Along side raising the bar of behaviour to the point where acting like a human being and not being a dick is not "good guy" status but a general state of being.

We shouldn't be making it so easy for them by being thrilled they actually do their flies up inside the toilet cubicle, or dont perv at school girls...

So here's a question then. If you had the opportunity to represent police with a tree around safety of our young people/women and sexual violence, what messages would be better?

No means no

It's not your fault

We are always here

Here's a female.only cab firm number

men at home by 9

No means no
Keep your hands to yourself
You arent owed anything

Mine were aimed at the men btw!

If you tell a woman to protect herself

If she follows every piece of advice on that Christmas tree

And she still gets raped

Then what?

The conversation needs to be centred around the PERPETRATORS. A woman will never get raped if a rapist isn't attacking her. No matter what she's wearing, doing, saying, drinking.

A woman will never be raped if a rapist isn't attacking her.

Until society starts telling men to STOP BEING RAPISTS women will continue to be raped.

There is nothing inherent in any woman that makes her vulnerable to rape. RAPISTS make her vulnerable to rape.

And sure, follow the advice, but like a previous poster said, women already do. We already follow all the advice.

Women know the dangers, we live with thought of them every day. It does't stop us being raped it just makes us curtail our own freedoms or feel guilty or scared if we don't.

If I had to address the police i would say,

Men are more likely to be raped than to be falsely accused so when a woman alleges it, take her seriously.

Victims don't act like victims. The aftermath can involve sexual behaviour, contacting the rapist, denying and lying. NONE of this means it wasn't a rape.

The absence of a no isn't consent. Only the presence of an enthusiastic yes freely given is consent.

Rapists often choose victims who won't be believed; sex workers, girls in care, unsympathetic, promiscuous, low power women. Which means when they allege rape, it's even more likely to be true.

And a whole load of other things...

If you had the opportunity to represent police with a tree around safety of our young people/women and sexual violence, what messages would be better?

Get consent/no means no/only yes means yes.

Stop thinking with your dick and just think.

Know your limits/"on it til you vomit" is a catchphrase not a challenge.

If the night stops being fun, go home. Don't stick around to drink more and get more angry so that you end up getting into fights.

Don't touch things that aren't yours unless you have explicit permission - bags, drinks, body parts.

Have a plan to get home such as pre-booking a taxi and pre-paying by card so even if you lose/spend all your money, you can get home.

They're not catchy but I'm sure whoever is paid to do these things could make them catchy and I'll probably end up thinking of more.

Thank you for the links to The Independent article on the story. I’m sorry it is real and that there are still members of the police about that don’t understand how wrong victim blaming campaigns like this are.☹️

@Venger I would love to see

'Stop thinking with your dick and just think!' On a Christmas bauble!

Seriously though there are some really good thoughts and opinions here. I think however badly it's come across, the police have said the message 'you are vulnerable when you're drunk' is aimed at both sexes and having spent time out there seeing the night time economy and witnessing extremely drunk and vulnerable boys and girls (I deliberately call them that as it's far rarer to see older adults in this state) I believe this is a message we should be trying to get across to our young people. It's not only rape and sexual assault but robberies and physical assaults too. Plus the dangers of hypothermia and the like. I came across a young lad once slumped on the ground on a back street, hunched in a ball and vomiting over himself. Called an ambulance and when they arrived his temp was in the low 20's and he was very unwell.

Unfortunately Suffolk Police missed the message by poorly chosen images.

I don't agree that advising women to be aware of their own safety is victim blaming.

It categorically is victim blaming by virtue of absence of advice aimed at men/boys about consent.

Just a little reminder on the entire subject of sexual harassment, even if it isn't exactly on topic. Not just rape, but even little comments. I'm glad she said it, but it was incredibly depressing she had to.

None of it is banter unless the recipient/subject agreed that it is banter.