If you have good boundaries why do you think that is ?

[Lardlizard]

?

I think I had two parents who in their own way had good boundaries and very strong sense of themselves. As a child, sometimes I hated it - they embarrassed me or they made me do things because they were sensible/appropriate and not the same as what all my friends were doing. But I survived all those things and came to learn that other people's opinions are only important up to a point. Good sense over emotional responses is far more valid.

I worry that I'm not as strict with my children. Silly things like I hate girls school shoes and would far rather put DD in boys shoes as they're more practical. But she doesn't want to be different from her friends so I try to compromise with the best girls shoes I can that are still at least a little pretty. And she's' happy. Obviously. But I'm not convinced she's learning the same lessons. I just have to hope she's learning them in other ways and in how we talk about people and ourselves etc.

Having a very awkward family. So I have rules, mainly to protect 6from chernobyl levels of toxicity.

Eg my dad.

My dad gets a weekly phonecall
Is permitted to stay the night 2 nights in row.
He will never babysit my kids.
I will never spend Xmas day with him. Ever

And on other themes...
I have never worked on my birthday
Do not make any effort (any more) for my inlaws as they never do for me. If they visit my husband cooks.
I won't go to school mum things because I don't enjoy them.

Consequently I am rarely frothing, normally in control and nothing is ever too much as its all within my parameters

Age, the wisdom of growing up and reading things online that made me realise I have a choice. I do not have to stand for things (or people) if I don't want to. it's not just "how things are".

Because it's all you've ever known doesn't mean it's the right way.

My parents, particularly my mum. She’s very good at expressing anger and saying no where it’s appropriate. I sometimes channel her when I need to be assertive. Then I went to an all-girls school where individuality and forging your own path was highly valued, so it got reinforced.

The Shark Cage theory is about enabling women with weaker boundaries to recognise 'sharks' and develop a much stronger, more protective 'cage'.

Some women are lucky enough, thanks to a good upbringing, to have an innately strong 'cage', and therefore to detect and avoid 'sharks'.

Other women have to develop this over time.

www.ursulabenstead.com.au/about-the-shark-cage/

I had an awful childhood.

I learnt in my late teens the only way to recover from that was to have firm boundaries and be a zero tolerance zone for them.

I’ve been like it my entire life.

Age and experience, some of it mine, some other people's that I've read lots of on MN. It's taken a lot of concrete examples to see how actions indicate boundaries. Oh I also read nice girls dont get the corner office which helped tremendously.

I grew up around ridiculous people and as a result have a very low tolerance for bullshit or nonsense of any kind.

On second thoughts, maybe I am terrible at boundaries.

I know how to do boundaries now, in theory.

I struggle to follow it through in reality.

I think the thing that makes the difference is that you need to be okay with the concept of upsetting people. I am very, very conflict avoidant because conflict frightens me which is why I totally wilt away when it comes to actually upholding any boundaries. It makes me into a total people pleaser. I am frightened to do/say anything which might upset or anger someone else, especially if I don't know them well enough to know how they will react. I'm OK with my DH (after many, many years of him patiently saying "Why did you wait so long to ask me?")

My mum is a similar character and essentially raised my sister and me alone and since we are all fairly mild mannered compliant types by nature she never really had to tell us off or uphold any boundaries at all - we were that mythical family who had discussions about things rather than ever telling off or being punished :o

Then my dad is more...shall we say direct? So I think probably experiencing the two extremes lead me to believe that conflict IS dangerous and potentially threatening, and there is no in between. I didn't know what the in between looks/feels like and I'm not really certain that it exists because I don't have any template for it. Later in life as I've had experience e.g. at work, I've managed to build more of a template for it but it's still hard to put that into practice because it's difficult to override a defensive instinct.

It’s 100% age and experience for me.

I was a proper ‘cool girlfriend’ back in the day and I cringe. I did some really questionable things because of it that I would never even contemplate now.

It helps that I don't need anyone anymore. I'm not young and desperate to find a man and have kids and worried it might not happen. I've got a house, children, husband and if I was ever single I wouldn't be in a hurry not to be. I'm not bothered about keeping my job. This is all insulation against giving any fucks what others think of me. If it doesn't work for me then I walk away. I would never be young again. Give me wrinkles and experience over youth and insecurity.

My eyes have also been opened by age and experience and Mumsnet. I see injustice and misogyny everywhere.

I also did some questionable, rash and self destructive things when I was young.

Bertie - I get what you're saying, but I am a people-pleasing conflict avoider, and I still have rock solid boundaries. At least when it comes to relationships and friendships (and I'm assuming that's what this discussion is actually about).

To me, it's not about being OK with the concept of upsetting people.

I've never needed it to get anywhere near that far.

I guess my dodgy man radar is so well-tuned, that I'd never even get beyond small talk stage with such a person.

I don't have to be rude to anyone, because I zone these sorts of people out automatically - without even really being aware of it.

Same with friendships. I've never had friends take advantage of me, treat me like a mug, or take, take, take - the way I often see written about on here. I don't need to put my foot down, stand up for myself, confront anyone, etc. It never gets that far. This is what I mean by never having really even thought about my boundaries. They're just there.

I feel really wary about saying these sorts of things, as I don't want anyone to think I've got it all sorted out, or worse, that I'm victim-blaming, or insinuating that people who can't do this, are somehow responsible for bad relationships, etc. They're absolutely not.

I'm just lucky because of my background, upbringing, parents, etc.

I dont really have any.

Lucky to grow up in the setting, in the time and with the family I did, plenty of shit stuff but no real bad consequences to me, ever. I dont really understand consciously how to keep myself safe but I also seem to have been born with that personality type that will crush other people to get to the emergency exit.

I'm in a variety of potentially unsafe situations at the moment but I dont really feel it. And the one time I was really at risk, I saved myself and let the other person die.

I've always had a low bullshit threshold.

Interesting that people attribute boundaries both to good parenting and poor parenting.

Is boundaries just another word for having a developed sense of self worth?

Good self esteem and yes, self worth.
I felt free to make choices from a young age and always seemed to make choices that worked well so I felt confident in going with my instincts and gut feelings.

I had no idea who I was, I had terrible boundaries. I am still struggling, the issues I still have are so deep and entrenched it is sometimes hard for me to spot them.

When I started learning more about myself, paying attention and nurturing, responding to my needs, I started developing healthy boundaries.

You have healthy boundaries when you are able to recognise that the other’s actions/inactions are not compatible with your values/wishes/stances and you are able to say something/remove yourself from the situation/act without worrying what the other person might think, how it might react etc.

I think it stems from childhood attachment. You would do anything so you don’t upset/push away the other person, because you don’t want to be left. It’s infancy learnt behaviour and it’s properly f*ed up. Say, you’re always available to cuddles with your mum, because you never know when it would be the next time she’ll be in a good enough mood. Or you’re scared to say no/it’s not true/I don’t want to, because during childhood such behaviours were punished.

When you’re a grown up, even if you are aware you’re being used/not treated nice etc, you continue the relationship because that’s how you are programmed: to please at a cost to you.

Watching my mother, who had and has no boundaries, as I grew up, and realising other ways of living were possible.

My parents. They had good boundaries and ethics, which rubbed off on me and my siblings.

Parenting.
Life experiences of others.
Insight into how relationships work.
Therapy.
Lots of opportunity to practise.

I know a lady with lots of self worth but no relational intelligence and this means her boundaries are a struggle because she is oblivious.

When I was a teen I didn’t really have any and put myself in some crazy situations.

When I was 20 I met a man and I absolutely adored him and I think he had feelings for me too. And it was all very passionate. But we played so many stupid games with each other, messing around with other people, making each other jealous.

One day I just decided, that’s it, no more. And it was so so painful withdrawing from him and of course it only made him keener. But I never caved.

I know if I’d carried on with him, my life would have been one long heartbreak. Amazing times but terrible times too. And I’m actually still in awe of my 22 year old self having the nouse to make that decision. I look back at it from my mid fifties and think, well done you.

Is boundaries just another word for having a developed sense of self worth?

It's different sides of the same coin. You won't have one without the other.

Experience and observation.
The people pleasers I know are pretty universally unhappy people.
Also I have poor health. It's actually very easy to have strong boundaries when you just don't have much to give. My children and my husband are my priority people.

Does it mean saying No?
My mother often harangued me for being a selfish cow.
I'm still a selfish cow (she'd say).
but works for me.
Rosa on Brooklyn 99 is my hero.