Dh called dd a cocky piece of shit

[MeeceAndMice]

Dd is 11, she's lazy and a bit selfish, but Ime that's nothing too out of the ordinary at this age. She's a nice girl and she does as she's told (eventually!) she's definitely not unruly or naughty, just a bit grumpy at times and complains when she's asked to do things round the house.

Dh struggles more with the kids when they're older, think he managed better with toddlers he can tell what to do for eg.

Tonight he asked Dd11 to wash up, which she did, but she left some so he told her to do it properly, about half an hour later he asked her to tidy up a bit in the living room. She said no, gave some back chat etc and went up to her room.

He went up a few minutes later and threatened to take her phone away, she said she didn't care, he threatened to snap it in two, she didn't care, so he walked out and slammed her bedroom door and said she was a cocky piece of shit.

He said he muttered it but she heard him through the door.

I've told him it's totally unacceptable, and if this is how he deals with, what I feel is, normal mild pre teen rebellion/asserting themself, pushing boundaries, how on earth is he going to deal with her when she really starts with the teenage behaviour. I have told him it can't happen again. She's a child ffs. He agreed and said I'm right but I can tell he thinks I'm overreacting.

He did go up and apologise to her, but from being with him for years he does have a habit of apologising and doing the thing he apologised for again. I'm not going to tolerate it, I know we all snap sometimes but come on. I feel like it's worse than smacking a kids bottom for being naughty. Or am I totally overreacting?

Dd was really upset

No child should be called a piece of shit by their own parent

My dd is a year older and cries very rarely, but I'm sure she would be in tears if DH or I called her that. Why are people suggesting they're crocodile tears?

I'd have been fucked off with the threat to break her phone in two - talk about upping the ante!!

Taking her things as a consequence isn't working. My daughter is stubborn like this too and I try to deal with a mix of humour and a bit of her own medicine! What has her phone got to do with mess in the living room really?

I'd have probably just asked her to come and give me a hand in the living room and chatted to her about something she likes talking about (gossip from school, Brooklyn 99 etc) but got the job done. If she refused I'd leave the mess but be too busy to do the next thing she wanted from me.

11 year old girls are "cocky" - they're trying to see what they can get away with that's all. Just step out of the power struggle.

And yes if my husband verbally abused my daughter like that I would be on the "I'm just not comfortable with living with someone who talks to children like that" conversation.

And yes, my daughter would be very distressed if one of us talked to her like that. We've had some bust ups but I've never insulted her personality!

I went up to ask what she thinks she's doing speaking to her dad like that, she cried and told me that, and I told her well you are acting like one, and when you're asked to do something you do it straight away without moaning.

Hang on a minute, so you basically reinforced the muttering under breath sentiment! Dad muttered it under his breath through a closed door (not great, but I've done worse), but you might as well have called her it to her face by saying "well you are acting like one". Why didn't you take that opportunity to explain that sometimes people say things in anger or frustration but they don't mean it, and you would speak to her father about it? But she should listen to instructions and now there would be consequences for actions...and so on.

I think tonight just needs to be more of a right off than a line drawn in the sand on parenting brhaviour.

Start tomorrow fresh the both of you, but sit down and come up with a strategy for dealing with disobedience that you both agree with and can do together. Because one parent reaching the end of their tether isn't fair regardless which parent it is whilst the other fumbles through the aftermath.

Meh, were all guilty of it.

The time I stood at the bottom of the stairs scoffing a curly wurly and waving two fingers towards my dds bedroom and muttering the fuck off song but I am human and do have limits.

If she'd have heard me / caught me in the act I'd have explained but then we'd have moved on. I actually think it's important that kids do learn that parents have feelings and emotions too and sometimes we react as human beings.

@64sNewName
I understood that her dh muttered it to himself as he left the room and her dd heard. Tbh I've often grumbled to myself about all family members at some time.
It's unfortunate dd heard him though it may be time she realised her parents can be rude and grumpy too.

Sometimes in life, we piss people off. It's something we all learn sooner or later and it so happens this girl has just learned from her Dad.
For sure he could have handled it better but she has also learned that Dads are human too. He apologised, end of story

By the way, love the curly wurly/ fuck off song story

I’m sorry but sometimes it’s really hard being a parent, pre-teens/teens can be very trying! I don’t think what he says was terrible but he might get some perspective if he reads this www.quora.com/How-do-I-tell-my-wonderful-11-year-old-son-in-a-way-that-won-t-tear-him-down-that-the-way-he-has-started-talking-to-me-disrespectfully-makes-me-not-want-to-be-around-him-I-ve-already-told-him-the-bad-attitude-is/answer/Jo-Eberhardt

It really helped me to understand my kids. He should apologise for what he said, but Jesus, I would not leave him over it!!

First off where they her given chores that she knew she should be doing or did he decide she should be
Does he also do chores? Because I am not sure here whether she wasnt doing her agreed chores or her Dad thought they needed doing and wanted her to do it (rather than himself). Does he also do chores on a Sunday

But neither of you are handling this well - he threatened to break her phone in two for this at 11? How on earth are you going to cope as she gets older this will escalate and HE will be the cause of it

I think some family communication and clear outlining of responsiblities is needed. A chore list so its clear what she should be doing and when and what her role is in it (and for you and your DH)

Oh dear, I hate to say it but suspect things are going to get a bit rocky for all until about 18 year's old ... when your daughter will at last understand she will lose money etc if she is rude. By this time, of course, the relationship with daughter will be very distant and she will only speak or not speak to get things or not get things taken away as maybe at uni and may still need dh investment.

In our family dynamic, we partner, was over the top either way with no partic reason but much more stick than carrot. The children therefore had over the topness and I would never ask for support in discipline and so they felt they could be much more rude etc to me as they got older and now they are at uni, we have discussed this dynamic. They remain watchful and wary of their father in conversation whereas he is able to say the most provoking things but they dont want their uni support withdrawn.

Things you could try are getting in a family counsellor but usually a fee. A discussion about battles and teens and what can be expected, though in my experience this goes out of the window in real life. Make sure you are there for your daughter to talk to avoid her turning to support from teen boys ...

Personally I think the part you’ve pinpointed in your OP is the least worst part of what happened.

Threatening to break her phone? For not completing all the washing up? Where on earth will he go from there. Ridiculous threat, no wonder she back chatted - she knows he won’t do that!

I think it’s good he apologised for losing his temper. Did DD apologise though? I agree she’s pushing boundaries and this won’t be the last time considering she’s only 11, but he (and you probably) need to find some other way of carrot and sticking her.

(I too have a husband who tends to have over the top reactions to fairly minor situations, I hate backing him up when he’s behaving ridiculously)

The DH sounds very like my Dad when I was about 11 or 12. I remember him one Christmas bellowing 'you impertinent little shit' at my older (14) brother and my brother actually cowering in the corner of the sofa. Good provider, crap parent. I've only begun to realise this since Dad has been widowed and is now elderly with multiple health issues.

OP, hope you find a solution. Apologies for derailing your thread.

@Hepsibar
Projecting much.

I remember him one Christmas bellowing 'you impertinent little shit' at my older (14) brother and my brother actually cowering in the corner of the sofa

OP did not say her DD was cowering in a corner.. quite the opposite in fact.

He said he muttered it but she heard him through the door.

this is quite different to your experience ...

Fair point but the sentiment is the same.

I went up to ask what she thinks she's doing speaking to her dad like that, she cried and told me that, and I told her well you are acting like one, and when you're asked to do something you do it straight away without moaning.

So you confirmed to dd that she was being a CPOS but you then give dh a bollocking?! I dont think it's that bad imo but it would piss me off how hypocritical you were being. I'm with your dh on this btw, she sounds like she was trying to push your DH to his limits

How are things today OP, all quiet in the western front

@ladyme oh yes school gossip and 99 always get my 11 year old talking!

Seriously my 11 almost 12 is an absolute delight at times, they are all like I would imagine, if I say it once I’ll say it 100 times. We talk and treat each other how we would like to be treated and we all like to be treated nicely which works, I work in a school and had emotional resilience training, it’s like magic If it works...I often use it when I’m just getting grunts it’s very interesting and learnt a lot.

Yes he's totally in the wrong, I just don't know if I'm overreacting thinking that if this happens again it's a deal beaker for me...

Yes, I think you are massively over-reacting. She's refused to do chores, given him a load of back-chat and walked away from him, and he's lost his temper with her - that's it.

Nothing has really happened here and to be honest in his shoes I would have been expecting you to back me up in asking her to do the tidying before it got to that point.

All is fine, i agreed she was being a cheeky shit, not that she was actually one.
I don't know, in my head cheeky piece of shit sounds much worse than cheeky little shit. It sounds more personal and hateful. Obviously that's just something I've come up with though seeing as everyone thinks he wasn't in the wrong.
Dd has had a stern talking to today, told that when she is asked to do chores she does not say no or moan or there will be consequences.

To those who asked, yes she apologised to her dad.

Looking at it it is easy to perceive how SHE feels it could be unfair that she is asked to do all of these things by her Dad when he doesnt.

He also needs to keep his temper in check - if that is your punishment for that you have no wiggle room at all for anything else. Its a bit like in olden times losing a hand for stealing an apple - where do you do from there

So I would discuss together appropriate sanctions for behaviour and stick with them. Also the real need to remain calm and in control

Then I think a chore rota and list through the whole family (we have one) really helps with promoting fairness

that's good news OP..

The other thing to bear in mind is that she is pushing boundaries and to try to not rise to it and to come up with alternative ways of changing the conversation so it doesn't become a row.

That said - sometimes kids do have to do what they are told and I agree with the pp who said that if they don't have boundaries and do what they are told at 10 - how the hell are you going to manage them at 16?

People say things when they’re mad. Simple. My parents have said the same kind of things to me when I was younger, and now that I’m older I see where they were coming from. It’s life.