DD is never going to forgive me is she?

[PleaseForgive]

She’s 5.

I had to go away for 3 days to attend the funeral of a family member. DD never met them and the funeral was mid-week so I decided not to take DD out of school.

Travelled with my parents, my grandparents and aunts (we were in 2 cars, but shared the driving between everyone except my grandparents so we stopped and swapped around cars – 500 mile round trip) the night before the funeral and came back the morning after.

DD was with my ExP. She is used to staying with him for 1 overnight at a time every weekend, it was originally more but she told cafcass during the court case that she didn’t like staying away from mummy for too long so they cut it back and awarded more midweek contact with no overnight. She absolutely hates the overnight, but I need her to go for my sanity as between work, caring for DD, helping my DPs with my autistic sibling and helping with my GPs I never get a rest. If it helps add context I split with ExP due to DV, but DD was tiny when we split and the overnights started when she was 3. We were originally supposed to build up to 2 overnights at a time and then switch to 2 nights EOW once she settled but DD gets so upset about going overnight for 1 night that ExH told me not to force her to stay 2 nights. She is absolutely fine going for tea and would happily go every night, and is fine with the weekend contact until bedtime when she starts saying it’s time to go home, she doesn’t want to sleep at daddys. It takes ExP ages to get her to sleep and she sometimes gets into such a state that she panics and triggers her asthma. ExP follows my routine (he was told to be cafcass) but she just doesn’t want to sleep there. We even tried taking ExP out of the equation in case it was him that was the problem so his mum did bedtime but she still got very upset. When I’ve tried to help calm her she says she wants to go home with me. She is absolutely fine going to bed when on holiday with me, but when ExP tried to take her away for the night he ended up bringing her home early as she kept saying she wanted mummy. I thought as she got older things would get easier but she still hates the overnight. She also won’t settle if she stays at my parents. ExP has told me she doesn’t sleep some nights she’s there – she has no problems settling or sleeping at home, even if I keep her up later or need to change her routine for some reason.

I discussed it with her teacher and we decided she was best staying with ExP. We thought even if she didn’t sleep keeping her routine was important. We also thought 2 nights might help reassure her that dads house is ok and it’s ok to enjoy sleeping there.

She didn’t sleep at all the first night (ExP picked her up from school, this is normal she stays Friday – Saturday with ExP so is used to seeing me in the morning and not again until next day we tried Sat – Sun and it made no difference to her behaviour at bedtime). And apparently went sobbing into her classroom in the morning saying she wants her mummy. The TA tried to find out why she doesn’t like being away from me (gently of course) and she just kept repeating that she misses me and wants to stay in my house with me for ever and ever. They tried asking if she was worried about her pets or me, but she said no, she knows I am ok and that her pets were being looked after by my cousin (on other side of my family so no relation to passed family member) but she missed me. She spent the day on and off sobbing for me; she is usually such a happy girl and skips into the classroom in the morning. She apparently ran to ExP at the end of the school day and asked if mummy was picking her up after tea, when ExP said no tomorrow she screamed and refused to leave school with him. He ended up having to carry her screaming to the car with her shouting “I want my mummy”.

She apparently screamed until she exhausted herself and did sleep but woke in the night shouting for me. I did end up skyping during that night just to let her know I was still about and she just sobbed at me saying she wanted to go home and she missed me.
When I got her from school the next day she told me she is never going to sleep at daddys again. She’s told her teacher and the TA the same thing. Everytime she goes to ExPs she says she’s not sleeping there and is coming home afterwards. We haven’t tried overnight with ExP since and ExP hasn’t mentioned it, but I really want her to be able to go overnight again, even if it was only 24 hours EOW, I really need that rest (it’s my only guaranteed chance to socialise with other humans that aren’t 3.5ft tall or forced to spend time with me due to being paid/related to me).

I really don’t know how/why she hates being away from overnight. If it was to do with the bed she’d hate holidays with me but we have stayed in hotels and holiday cottages several times since I split with ExP and she’s always been fine there.

Even stranger is she’s not a clingy child at all, she’s generally happy, loves school, has friends, quite independent in most things but just hates being away overnight.

She’s never going to forgive me for going away is she?

Two years of living in a house with a man who was violent and frightening. That’s enough to traumatise a little girl out of ever feeling safe with him. You need to take time off from GPS and your sibling and give that extra energy to her, she’s your only responsibility here. She’s telling you very very clearly what she needs. Do not ignore her.

Absolutely this.

It must take so much for a 5 year old to be so clear with you. You must listen OP.

I was like this. I have no idea why but I vividly remember kicking and screaming and kicking and screaming some more anytime my left me. I remember my first day at school, grandma babysitting, my dad taking me to a panto at Christmas, going to a school friends birthday party, sleepovers at friend houses (I never lasted the night, friends parents always ended up ringing my mum to come and get me) - the list goes on. I just couldn't bare to not have my mum within reach. For whatever reason, each and every time we were separated I went into meltdown the moment my mum left the room. Apart from that I had a very happy childhood. Me and my mum were the bestest of friends and we have spoken about it many times. Neither of us has a clue why I was like that. All I can advise is keep telling her you love her and don't pamper to her every whim - which looking back is what we think mum perhaps used to do. Be firm and reassure her that you will be back soon.

Is your daughter close to your parents? If so, I'd start off by having them there at bedtime. You do routine, they are just in house- say good night to her. Be there in morning when she wakes (!but you are doing everything). If she is fine when you do this, get your parents to put her to bed at yours with you present. Maybe pretend you arent feeling well (wouldn't normally advocate lying!). You give her a kiss but they do everything else. You be there first thing in am. If that works, do same again but in morning they wake her up and are alone with her for 30 mins. If that works, get them to do all night time routine without you there (maybe building up over 3/4 days)...if that works, get her to sleep at theirs with you there, if she is comfortable with that, get them to do night time routine (like final step in your house). If that works, try a full night at theirs without you there at all. Give masses of praise when she manages things, reassurance if not. If this all works, she is comfortable. Follow same process with dad. Do very gradually.

Two years of living in a house with a man who was violent and frightening. That’s enough to traumatise a little girl out of ever feeling safe with him. You need to take time off from GPS and your sibling and give that extra energy to her, she’s your only responsibility here. She’s telling you very very clearly what she needs. Do not ignore her

+1.
She is so young. She needs to come ahead of all the other calls upon your time. I know it's not easy but please put her ahead of the others.

You won’t like my suggestion I’m afraid, I have an autistic son and my dd was and in many ways is very similar to your dd- not wanting to be away from Mummy. My dd has always been anxious but at home she seemed independent, bubbly and always seemed social. However, as the years have gone by, it has become very apparent that my dd is also on the autistic spectrum. When she was younger she was very good at mimicking other children, so had the appearance of being social. However, now she is 10, she is struggling more and her school actually had concerns regarding her anxiety issues and how much she is struggling socially. We are now in the lengthy process of seeking a diagnosis and her school are providing support for her anxiety and social deficits.

Autism presents differently in girls but once I started researching girls on the spectrum, it was pointed out to me that I am on the spectrum. I actually feel better able to support her now. I do feel a lot of guilt though, as I should have noticed earlier- I’m an ex teacher and have studied autism extensively since my ds was diagnosed - however my dd presents so differently to my ds that it never crossed my mind.

I’m afraid it sounds very much like your dd May be on the spectrum, it looks like your dd really dislikes changes to routine and environment and it sounds very much like she had several meltdowns whilst you were away. It does sound like your DD’s school May be starting to recognise the sounds themselves.

Could your ex take your ds and give you time on your own with your dd.? Alternatively, you could have firstly have your parents put your dd to bed whilst you take a bath /rest in your bedroom. You could build it up to being downstairs, then popping out for five minutes. If you gradually introduce it then you could build it up. You could try the same whilst your ex gets your dd to sleep. My dd still dislikes being away from me but she has managed to sleep over at her friends and an overnight school trip, albeit with a great deal of anxiety and reassurance.

I realise that others are very quick to shout autism, I just see so much of my dd in how you describe you4 dd.

I was like this, also from a house with domestic abuse. My mum would leave me with friends and I would panic. They told her to keep doing it and I would get used to it till the night I was so upset I vomited and then had an asthma attack. I ended up in hospital.

I still remember the feeling that if I wasn't home, my mum would die. Ridiculous as not like a 5 year old could have done much, but I genuinely believed it and would get into a right state. I can't remember what helped, but from 10 I was happily staying away.

Have you tried her being at your home and someone watching her there? She sounds traumatised and I think over nights have to stop for now. I understand that you need a break, but her needs have to come first for now.

Is she safe with him, given that there was DV?

Getting her used to things gradually might work. Try inviting your parents to come to.your house and do bedtime with you there . As she gets more comfortable with that, introduce the idea that you will go out after she is settled but that you will be back in a set time ( set a timer for her) then go.out even if you just go for a 30 min walk. Reassure her that your parents are there and that you will be back

Be back when.you say you.will and keep it short. Gradually build up to.her being ok staying at home and going to bed with familiar people ( your parents,trusted friend.or family or babysitter etc).while you are home and being ok with you going out of the house for a bit after that.

Tbh, this was all we managed with D's until he was a lot older and wanted a sleepover. But it meant we could leave him with people at our house.
Not a solution for the situation with your ex but it might be a start.

I can't believe that your 5 year old daughter is expected to go and stay overnight with the man who was violent towards you.

What? How is this reasonable? No wonder she is afraid - even if she can't articulate her exact feelings on the matter. Because she's tiny.

It is a perfectly rational response to being stuck all night with a man capable of violence, when you are 5 and know you're on your own.

Also what do you mean that he disagreed with your parenting? Does he do things very differently when she's at his house?

I can understand that you’d need a break - but why does it have to be an overnight break that you have? How can it be worth it when your daughter is getting so distressed? Could you not plan a day away somewhere and then return by evening?
I agree with the others - she’s staying with the man who was violent towards you. I just don’t understand why you’d want her staying overnight with him at all.

Mine were like this, I have no idea why. All sleepovers at friends houses failed, they'd start well, but around 1030 we'd get a phone call to go pick them up. They just about managed at my parents but not really. I don't think they slept. I was never any good at sleepovers myself, I liked the smell of my own home best and all my things around me. I could never sleep anywhere else.
I'd try someone staying at yours next time, see if she's happier in her own bed wi all her stuff around her.

Ours never really grew out of it a such, they stopped even trying sleepovers, they would arrange to come home rather than stay the night. The younger one sailed off to uni no problems at all, the older one stays over fine now but she is 25

Would you let him overnight with her in your house?

Firstly, Cafcass found no reason to prevent contact between ExP and DD, he wanted overnight and the legal advice I had was there was no evidence to stop it as he was never violent towards her due to never being left alone with her as he never wanted to be but that's a whole other thread. He used to just blow, no argument or anything he'd just start shouting for no apparent reason. I followed the advice I was given, the judge and cafcass said we build up to 2 nights away then switch to EOW but we never did as DD is so distressed being away from me for the one night. There is no evidence to suggest DD is being abused by ExP and I honestly don't think he would anyway, like I said his anger was always directed at me - that's not to say DD hasn't been affected by it.

She has always got distressed staying anywhere without me not just at ExPs. But I will speak to my parents about them coming to mine for a night to see if it helps.

My GPs don't need care as such but are in their 80s so they need me to get shopping or do a bit of cleaning as they're quite slow now. They do keep moaning at me about doing too much for them so I will have a chat and see if maybe one of my aunts can take over - my parents don't provide care for them due to my sibling.

I only have one child and I will use my annual leave at work to get a break if I need it, I just didn't really want to as I only work 3 days a week so only get a few days a year AL which I like to use for time in the summer with DD. But I will do it, the night off is about me having a social life or having a rest if I need it, so I can feel human again.

Ok so I was like this. The most homesick child in the world. Sleepovers, school residential at 10, to be honest I never grew out of it entirely till I went to university and forced myself to be better about it. I wasn’t abused or a DV witness.

Good luck OP. This isn't a battle between you and DD by any means - you both need to cut yourselves some slack.

She's only 5 OP and will have been a through a lot emotionally with the breakup . Maybe wait 6 months before trying again. I think its too soon and her needs definitely trump anybody else's!

I was incredibly homesick as a child. I think it is an anxiety thing - I'm an anxious adult, although I can now do sleepovers and holidays! I think it started when my sister died suddenly and my mum was sectioned. I couldn't stay away from her after that - I needed to know she was safe.

But I will speak to my parents about them coming to mine for a night to see if it helps.
I would try that.

And, and this may be a step too far, could you sleep overnight with her at your Exs place? Just to see how she reacts?

And, and this may be a step too far, could you sleep overnight with her at your Exs place?

Unfortunately even if I wanted to there's nowhere at ExPs to sleep, 3 bed house; Ex-PILs in one room, ExP in the other and the tiny box room with literally just a bed in for DD.

PleaseForgive Ah, it was just an idea to try and make it seem like a more 'safe' place for her if her mum has slept there.
Its a very difficult one to solve!

Another option, possibly silly again, can he stay over at your house and you go someone else for the night? I get its a lot of fuss but its trying to narrow down exactly what part of the situation she doesn't like.

I would start with your parents staying overnight with her at your house and see how she gets on?

Unfortunately OP is correct. Ex partners can pretty much be as abusive or violent towards Wives/girlfriends as they want. It only affects contact with their kids if they are violent towards them

Just scrap the overnights.
My 7yo is just the same, still hates it when we go out and has something of mine to cuddle if I am late at work. I was just the same so don't worry about it.

His siblings are not remotely fussed.

What’s done is done (in terms of the funeral), but please don’t make your DD stay with him again! She is telling you loud and clear that she’s not happy. I don’t know what else she can do. You already said she was crying at school and through the night - you’re effectively rendering her voiceless by not listening.

Just seen your latest update, could your ex make her room more 'hers' or let her decide how she wants it decorated so it's something a bit more exciting? I wouldn't want to sleep in a room that just had a bed in it either.