DD is never going to forgive me is she?

[PleaseForgive]

She’s 5.

I had to go away for 3 days to attend the funeral of a family member. DD never met them and the funeral was mid-week so I decided not to take DD out of school.

Travelled with my parents, my grandparents and aunts (we were in 2 cars, but shared the driving between everyone except my grandparents so we stopped and swapped around cars – 500 mile round trip) the night before the funeral and came back the morning after.

DD was with my ExP. She is used to staying with him for 1 overnight at a time every weekend, it was originally more but she told cafcass during the court case that she didn’t like staying away from mummy for too long so they cut it back and awarded more midweek contact with no overnight. She absolutely hates the overnight, but I need her to go for my sanity as between work, caring for DD, helping my DPs with my autistic sibling and helping with my GPs I never get a rest. If it helps add context I split with ExP due to DV, but DD was tiny when we split and the overnights started when she was 3. We were originally supposed to build up to 2 overnights at a time and then switch to 2 nights EOW once she settled but DD gets so upset about going overnight for 1 night that ExH told me not to force her to stay 2 nights. She is absolutely fine going for tea and would happily go every night, and is fine with the weekend contact until bedtime when she starts saying it’s time to go home, she doesn’t want to sleep at daddys. It takes ExP ages to get her to sleep and she sometimes gets into such a state that she panics and triggers her asthma. ExP follows my routine (he was told to be cafcass) but she just doesn’t want to sleep there. We even tried taking ExP out of the equation in case it was him that was the problem so his mum did bedtime but she still got very upset. When I’ve tried to help calm her she says she wants to go home with me. She is absolutely fine going to bed when on holiday with me, but when ExP tried to take her away for the night he ended up bringing her home early as she kept saying she wanted mummy. I thought as she got older things would get easier but she still hates the overnight. She also won’t settle if she stays at my parents. ExP has told me she doesn’t sleep some nights she’s there – she has no problems settling or sleeping at home, even if I keep her up later or need to change her routine for some reason.

I discussed it with her teacher and we decided she was best staying with ExP. We thought even if she didn’t sleep keeping her routine was important. We also thought 2 nights might help reassure her that dads house is ok and it’s ok to enjoy sleeping there.

She didn’t sleep at all the first night (ExP picked her up from school, this is normal she stays Friday – Saturday with ExP so is used to seeing me in the morning and not again until next day we tried Sat – Sun and it made no difference to her behaviour at bedtime). And apparently went sobbing into her classroom in the morning saying she wants her mummy. The TA tried to find out why she doesn’t like being away from me (gently of course) and she just kept repeating that she misses me and wants to stay in my house with me for ever and ever. They tried asking if she was worried about her pets or me, but she said no, she knows I am ok and that her pets were being looked after by my cousin (on other side of my family so no relation to passed family member) but she missed me. She spent the day on and off sobbing for me; she is usually such a happy girl and skips into the classroom in the morning. She apparently ran to ExP at the end of the school day and asked if mummy was picking her up after tea, when ExP said no tomorrow she screamed and refused to leave school with him. He ended up having to carry her screaming to the car with her shouting “I want my mummy”.

She apparently screamed until she exhausted herself and did sleep but woke in the night shouting for me. I did end up skyping during that night just to let her know I was still about and she just sobbed at me saying she wanted to go home and she missed me.
When I got her from school the next day she told me she is never going to sleep at daddys again. She’s told her teacher and the TA the same thing. Everytime she goes to ExPs she says she’s not sleeping there and is coming home afterwards. We haven’t tried overnight with ExP since and ExP hasn’t mentioned it, but I really want her to be able to go overnight again, even if it was only 24 hours EOW, I really need that rest (it’s my only guaranteed chance to socialise with other humans that aren’t 3.5ft tall or forced to spend time with me due to being paid/related to me).

I really don’t know how/why she hates being away from overnight. If it was to do with the bed she’d hate holidays with me but we have stayed in hotels and holiday cottages several times since I split with ExP and she’s always been fine there.

Even stranger is she’s not a clingy child at all, she’s generally happy, loves school, has friends, quite independent in most things but just hates being away overnight.

She’s never going to forgive me for going away is she?

poor you and your poor DD. I'd agree that the suggestion to see how it works if your parents look after her at yours is a good one. You could also try contacting Relate, as they offer child counselling which is funded by Children in Need, and they might be able to help you and her understand what is going on.
I really understand that you need a break. It does sound like the school is really trying to help, which is really positive. It also sounds like your ExP had a pretty horrendous time with her and probably doesn't really want to go through that again in a hurry. If you're worried about the court order, I'd at least discuss it with your ExP so that he's kept informed of what's going on and you can maybe reach decisions together.
She will forgive you. She probably already has. But you need to try to get this sorted as I think it's a sign of a deeper anxiety. It may pass, but it doesn't sound like you feel you can wait another 5 years...
Good luck OP

You need a break so much that you’d put your DD through this level of trauma to get it? Why are you helping DP’s autistic sibling and your GPs to the detriment of your DD? What did DP do before you came along?
There are other adults who can help them but your DD only has you to advocate for her. She’s 5!

Its possible she may retain unconscious memories of your abuse even from when she was tiny. Babies are very, very sensitive and fine tuned to their environment even if they don’t understand consciously what is going on. Even baby animals sense danger.

Could she be worried that something bad is going to happen to you if she’s not there?

She may be worried that something bad may happen to her.

You have a traumatised child. Stop retraumatising her.

My younger DD was like this and at 11 she still is to some extent. She's an otherwise happy, confident child...she just cannot abide being away from home.

She's fine on holiday because DH and I are there..but try to get her to her Gran's (who she adores) or even her best friend's...nope!

I don't know the answer but I'd love to....then I could have a night off...as an adult!

I hated being apart from my mum. My parents were married, no arguing, never slept in with my mum, so no reason per se, but I could not bear being away from her. I was outraged when I had to start reception, I just wanted to stay home with her. I never got over the feeling, just managed my sadness when I wasnt with her eventually. I couldnt have slept at GP's house and I adored them. I was just happiest with her.

Look up developmental trauma, esp in relation to DV.

Being exposed to DV can be terrifying for children. They don’t need to see it. They may hear it or just pick up on the tension. It can affect small babies, so don’t think that because she was young that it didn’t affect her.

She might benefit from Play Therapy or similar.

No need to be a "witness". Because even babies are harmed by DV. Irrelevant whether or not any particular acts of abuse happened in front of them. The very nature of being in an abusive home damages children.

my DD hated when I was away (I travel a lot for work). For trips when she was 3, I would make a big 'story of DDs adventure' with a page for each day and the fun things she could do with DH/Granny and what the bedtime routine would be etc. She could tick off each event in the book and see when I'd be back. It was still hard work but she learnt that I could be away and I would come back.

DD2 also had a LOT of cuddly toys when I was away. sometimes a new one for each trip ...

I agree with a poster above that if your DDs granny can care for her at your house, that would be ideal. And that you need to stay home for a while to give her time to grow up & be more confident about your breaks. pushing this one thing too hard & too early could make her anxious all the time.

She’s only 5, she loves and wants her mummy there is nothing wrong with that. I wouldn’t be sending her anywhere. I would start with a trusted parent/friend etc having a stay over at yours with you also in the house. Build up slowly and then you can leave her with said person in her familiar surroundings.

Would you be able to Skype her when she's in bed at your parents' house, and read her a bedtime story over that, have a wee chat, sing some songs. Then tell her it's bedtime now so lie down and close her eyes. Explain that if she lies down nice and quietly then you will stay there watching her but if she starts screaming then you will need to hang up. I don't know if that would be helpful or make it worse, but she'd know you weren't on the house but still there for her. Keep doing it and then try ending the call when it's time to lie down . Then try just a voice call with no video etc.

To take another view, some kids just need to face it? I meant kids can find it traumatic not co-sleeping with parents anymore, or moving to their own room or going to nursery for the first time. They still have to do it though.

Maybe if you can agree it with your ex (and feel safe to do so) you could go to his and help with the bedtime routine next time? Then leave when she's asleep? If not, then perhaps some convincing from you might be in order, or something like a nightlight or bedtime toy that she can take with her? Something that gives her a link to home? even potentially bedding? if the bed has the same type of bedding and so looks the same maybe she'll feel better? Probably worth discussing with a professional depending on how bad it is, but I think shielding her from it will cause more issues in the future when she will never be able to stay away?

So yes, don't force her through it per se, but definitely try and work through it with her. Note: This is assuming there is not ongoing DV towards you or your daughter, obviously if there is then ignore everything.

No ongoing DV, ExP and I get on fairly well especially since we've been through court, court was initiated by him because he didn't agree with my parenting, but he was told by the judge he needed to let me do my thing. Since then things have been ok, we don't argue or anything, we're civil in front of DD, and manage to attend school events together no problems.

Sorry if this is intrusive but did you and your ex maybe 'argue' alot at night? I distinctly remember a huge blazing row my parents had one night when I was small (3ish) and for years if my parents were talking too animated I would listen to see if they were arguing again and I would get so anxious.

If her F was the one who inflicted DV on you, then it seems a bit surprising she's expected to overnight with him at all? Reassuring he doesn't want to force her in any event. At her age she'll be wracked with emotions that she can't label or articulate but which will be all encompassing for her. Like PP's I'd hope that you would let her sleep where she feels safe for now. Best of luck.

There doesn’t need to be ongoing DV. If she previously lived in a home where DV occurred, she may well have ongoing trauma linked to that.

I was your DD!!! Was fine at aunts, grans etc until bedtime. Couldn't stay overnight, couldn't bear not being with my mum. No particular explanation just wanted to be safe with her, even if my sister's were staying too. That was 40 or so years ago now. Still can't explain it. She will of course forgive you!

@PleaseForgive She was a baby when I left, less than 2 years old so possibly. But we may never know if she did.

At two, she understands emotions, she will have known when you were upset, when you were quiet, when you were distant, when you were frightened - she will have noticed those times you held her tight when it was just the two of you - two year olds have an instinct and can feel it too. She may need therapy when she’s old enough to comprehend it and talk about it. She won’t even realise that these past feelings are causing this yet.
Can you hold off with overnights for a few years? It’ll be worth it. I think she’s suffering from anxiety and it seems when her mind is at rest, at night, those subconscious feelings come creeping in, no matter where she’s sleeping, she needs to know you’re right there when she calls for you.
A pp suggested you try backing off on care/time spent on parents/gps/sibling - can you help EOW with them? Can you explain that if you don’t sort this out for your DD now, it may become something even bigger for her as a young adult.
If you need psychological advice, do seek some. Good luck.

My DS was the same OP.
The fix was him going for sleepovers at his dad's and GP's but being brought home if that was what he really wanted. The expectation of all the adults was that he would go home. And he did for a while. Then he stayed.

And I am grateful.

Of course she will forgive you so you must stop beating yourself up about this. After all, it was a one-off.

However, this situation She absolutely hates the overnight, but I need her to go for my sanity as between work, caring for DD, helping my DPs with my autistic sibling and helping with my GPs I never get a rest sounds dreadful. Yes, your sanity is of paramount importance here. You are the filling in a footlong sandwich of caregiving and we all know that when you press down too hard on a butty, the filling oozes out of the sides.

Is it time to get external help for the GPs? As they get older, their care needs will only increase. Is now the time to get them used to outside assistance?
This would give you and your parents extra time. Extra time for your parents to care for your sibling giving you, in turn, extra time for yourself. Perhaps your parents need to get external help for your sibling too if they are finding it hard to manage.

Two years of living in a house with a man who was violent and frightening. That’s enough to traumatise a little girl out of ever feeling safe with him. You need to take time off from GPS and your sibling and give that extra energy to her, she’s your only responsibility here. She’s telling you very very clearly what she needs. Do not ignore her.

Taking a different tack: OP, sort yourself out a decent break first. You can't look after three sets of dependents, each with separate types of high needs and work, that's not a life.

Your need for respite and sanity comes at least equal to anyone else's demands.

Can you get DP to take DD for a full day starting at crack of dawn, returning late Sat, repeat on Sunday? Lunches out instead of evenings?

Could you sleep train DD at your parents' house?

At some stage, you will all have to work on reinstating the overnights with exDP, you and DD need it for different reasons. So does exDP, he's her dad. You will all have to pull together on this. It's not just your job.

If her F was the one who inflicted DV on you, then it seems a bit surprising she's expected to overnight with him at all?

I must say this is what I thought too. I know a man who was guilty of DV just once and he's only been allowed minimal, supervised contact with his DCs for all the many years they've been divorced. Mind you, the objection came from his ex-W and obviously you don't feel the same.

Could she have Seperation Anxiety Disorder? I read up a bit more here.