Can you be sectioned in a outpatient psychiatrist appointment

[User43245]

If you are deemed a risk or is section 5.2 only able to be used if already in a hospital setting

S 5(2) is for people who are already inpatients. The doctor could of course call a MHA and ask AMHP, doctors and police with warrant (if needed) to come to your home and assess your there.
Plenty of other ways to deal with risk without retaining someone.
Hope you are ok x

A 5.2 (or 5.4) can only be used for someone who is already an inpatient.

If a psychiatrist felt it was necessary to use a section urgently in an outpatient appointment they would need to contact the police who could use a 136 to detain for 72 hours while an assessment took place.

Surely the police can’t 136 unless the person is in a public place.

An Outpatients Department is a public place.

No you'd have to undergo a mental health act assessment.

An outpatients clinic is a public place, so police could 136, however you'd be lucky to find a copper willing to though.

There was a big case quite recently of someone 5(2) at an outpatients and she won a human rights act violation for imprisonment.

Was just curious as apparently someone I know was apparently sectioned at an outpatient appointment after admitting to taking over the recommend amount of tablets.

Yes you can be sectioned anywhere if necessary, including your own home

Yes. My mil was recently sectioned T an out patient appointment.

Yes but @BertrandRussell @BuffaloCauliflower it wouldn't have been under a 5.2 as that can only be used if you're already on a ward/inpatient facility.

@User43245 did they spec say 5.2? Sure it wasn't just a 2?

They came out to my own home to section me, which was quite alarming - I agreed to go in voluntarily in the end, but if I'd tried to leave, they would have sectioned me.

Apparently they couldn’t put them on a section two as you have to be medically cleared

There is no such thing as "medically cleared". It's meaningless bullshit used to pass the buck.

S136 results in a 24 hour period of detention for assessment, not 72.

A s135 warrant can be used to detain someone in their own home, if signed by a magistrate. Police cannot use s136 in a home.

Are you asking because you're concerned it was unlawful? Because you don't believe the friend? Some other reason?

If you use Twitter @mentalhealthcop and @asifamhp would probably be able to answer this. The former is a police inspector at the College of Policing who advises on mental health law as it's used by the police, and the latter is an AMHP (ie someone with the power to detain under the MHA) who knows this stuff inside out and is hot on where things cross into unlawful acts.

They're friendly and usually open to answering random questions if you approach nicely (but can get a lot of tweets, so be aware they may not see yours...)

Sorry- I misread. mil was section 2.

Medically cleared is a thing but they can be cleared and sectioned. You cannot section someone because their medically unwell, unless it's as a result of their mental health. Unfortunately taking an o/d can be considered a choice and self harm rather than a mental health crisis and therefore they would not be detainable. That would apply to a 5(2) or a 2 though.

Part of the 2 paperwork does ask if someone has been cleared by a medic if their physical health is at risk, in the case of an o/d it would be.

I am an RNMH and have been in the position to have to use my 5(4) powers a number of times. I've been involved in sectioning people many many times and often worked with AMHPs in my previous role (Crisis assessment)

@Apocalyptichorsewoman I hate that and I'm sorry you were put in that position. I am strongly against the "be voluntary or we will section you" thing. That's not a voluntary admission.

So someone could technically be allowed to leave a psychiatrist appointment having overdosed?

Yes, if they had capacity, were assessed as not detainable.

I've seen it happen a number of times. The complication comes between them not meeting the threshold for MHA or MCA.

I work primarily with women with trauma, self harm and so this has become an area I'm privvy to a lot

So from a legal point of view someone who discloses an overdose at an outpatient appointment is unlikely to be sectioned as they can’t be placed on a two as they aren’t medically cleared and can’t be on a section 5.2

Where in the UK are you?

It is possible to be detained in Scotland in an outpatient appointment ( then taken into hospital) in accordance with Scottish Mental Health legislation.

In the midlands

They can be sectioned, they can use other sections and in theory could use a S2 once they've compelled treatment.

Depends on the O/D, reasons for it and risk presented to life.

It's a very complex thing and not as simple as a yes or no answer. If I chose not to section someone who had O/D and was refusing treatment then I would have to have very good evidence as to why but yes it does happen.

I'm not sure about sections in Scotland @Thecurtainsofdestiny but the OP was asking about using 5(2) doctors holding powers rather than general sectioning. They can't use that at outpatients.

Do you know what section was used?

In an emergency situation, a s4 could be used. Which requires only one med rec (from a psychiatrist) and an AMHP. The AMHP could also have been a care co-ordinator, so attending the meeting anyway.

Also.. of course someone could be allowed to leave, having stated that they'd ODed. The could be lying, or might have been advised to seek medical treatment. It's up to P whether they refuse if they have capacity.