Media black out about NHS?

[HelloCheeky]

According to our local FB site both our local hospitals are on black alert as they are beyond capacity. People are also posting to say that this is a widespread problem over the country but it's deliberately not being reported. Does anyone have information about this?

Taybert:
I’m a GP. Other countries don’t have a healthcare system like ours. The free at the point of access system is sacred in this country

I am fairly certain there are lots of countries in the world that now have free at the point of access healthcare. We love to imagine the UK is unique and it's not. What is unique is the appalling state the NHS is in and we carry in thinking it's normal and that nothing can be done about it.

This happens every winter. Yes we're at the end of our tether.

And yes, other countries have free at point of access healthcare (such as Norway) but it works better as it's better funded. We dont want to pay tax though.

“ I am fairly certain there are lots of countries in the world that now have free at the point of access healthcare”

But how are they funded? I’ve managed to use A&E quite a bit in the last few years, between me and the olds, and if it’s a choice between a lot of extra tax or a fee for the visit, I’d pick the latter, with exemptions for those who can’t pay. I’d also ask why the NHS is falling over itself to provide things like “just in case” statins that many people don’t want to take, why it provides things like IVF at all.

there’s too much emphasis on academic ability and not enough on qualities of compassion, empathy and understanding. A lot of trainee nurses I’m being told are refusing to do what they consider “menial” tasks because they think they’re above doing eg obs, cleaning bedpans, washing patients...

ok boomer.

Research also shows that wards with good staffing of degree educated nurses decreases mortality and leads to better patient outcomes. Are you seriously arguing against this?

I would also like to know who is telling you that trainee nurses are refusing to do menial tasks. Cite your source! (if it exists)

But how are they funded?

Why don't you go on google and do your own research. Suggest you start with Canadian Medicare.

I would also like to know who is telling you that trainee nurses are refusing to do menial tasks.

It's a pretty common complaint from the older nurses at the hospital I work at that the recent graduates have an attitude problem and resent the more menial tasks seeing it as the HCA's job not theirs.

I don't know if it's fair because I'm non-clinical but its definitely a perception that exists amongst some of experienced clinical staff.

We do need well educated highly trained nursing staff but the degree qualification does scare off some less traditionally academic people who might have taken it up in previous years when it was more vocational and excelled because they have the right aptitude for care.

I think if the nursing apprenticeships ever get off the ground this will help to rectify this by opening nursing back up to everyone rather than just those with a traditional academic background.

Autumnrose How are universal healthcare free at the point of use systems funded? Lots of different models.

Spain, Portugal, Denmark and Sweden (just for example-there are others) fund just through taxation. Others like Germany through a mix of taxation and compulsory insurance paid by employers. But everybody is covered, everybody and the service is good. It really only is in the UK that the service is in a constant state of crisis. It also seems to be particular to the British that is assumed it can't be improved and that other countries don't have a clue.

There are more than enough people in the UK who could pay more tax without suffering. On top of that, yes maybe there could be insurance schemes that employers contribute to. There are lots of solutions. I don't know why most people think the choice is between the present situation, total collapse or some awful US style situation. It's not.

“What 'cheap' training is that then graphista? You are aware that nurses pay full fees the same as everyone else now for their degree?
How is medical school 'cheap'?“

Please tell me you don’t really think that’s the entire cost of training?!

It costs around £70-80k to train a nurse fees don’t cover that!

Wow! @youalreadyknow rude much?!

For starters I’m absolutely not a boomer - though the ageism of that insult is no less disgusting because of that fact, I’m 47 I trained as a nurse myself in the 90’s.

“Research also shows that wards with good staffing of degree educated nurses decreases mortality and leads to better patient outcomes. Are you seriously arguing against this?” What research? Because I highly doubt it’s able to distinguish between high levels of staffing by degree educated nurses (which I was!) and high levels of staffing generally which will naturally lead to better patient outcomes. It also can’t separate out other factors that may be contributing to those better outcomes like improved diagnosis and treatments which is happening continuously and alongside changes in training.

“I would also like to know who is telling you that trainee nurses are refusing to do menial tasks. Cite your source! (if it exists)” and clearly you didn’t read my post properly because I already did! Friends and ex colleagues who are still working within the nhs and are mentoring/managing trainees and newly qualified nurses. In addition I’ve a number of friends/friends adult children who are training/newly qualified themselves and telling me of fellow trainees and colleagues who are unwilling to do certain tasks and are generally “jobsworths” who make things difficult for patients and other staff.

It IS a problem, not only in terms of people without the right attitudes being recruited but in terms of the training not making clear to them that there are clinical and care reasons why it can be very useful and informative to have more patient contact and use certain “menial” tasks as an opportunity not only to build a therapeutic relationship with patients but to observe changes and notice possible issues early on.

When you have NURSES that don’t like TOUCHING patients which I have heard of on several occasions there is a problem with recruitment and training objectives.

@Graphista the overall cost may be much higher than the person pays but the point is that what the student pays is hardly cheap!

What research?

www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(13)62631-8/

qualitysafety.bmj.com/content/28/8/609

Here’s a couple of links to start you off! :)

As for “well all my pals say new nurses don’t even like touching their patients” [paraphrased]..I’ve heard more compelling arguments to say the least.

@Graphista there were always good and bad nurses, I trained in the 1980s and there were some poorly trained nurses around then as well. But they were (and still are) the minority. Oh and I definitely remember nurses from back then who wanted to sit in Matrons office sucking up to her instead of getting their hands dirty out on the ward! Nurses today need to have a different style of training from the one we had, it's not perfect now it could be improved, but the training I had wouldn't cut the mustard in a modern medical environment.

“the overall cost may be much higher than the person pays but the point is that what the student pays is hardly cheap!“ it is in relation to what the overall cost is and generally in terms of what it costs nursing students in other countries on an economic par with ours.

@youalreadyknow those studies are hardly conclusive, even the language used by the writers of the studies acknowledge that.

I think I’m right in assessing too that the main study was undertaken by an organisation representing registered nurses and so I’m guessing with an agenda for promoting the employment of registered nurses above other less less qualified hcps.

I don’t necessarily think that’s automatically a bad thing but the focus and bias of researchers is important to recognise.

@missyb1 of course there will always and always has been good and bad in all professions, and yes training should improve and evolve, but from what I have heard and experienced personally imo we’re veering towards in recruitment decisions selecting for training people who aren’t interested in and don’t understand the more personal and vocational aspects of nursing.

As a patient I’d rather have a nurse who is genuinely interested and cares than one who is qualified to the hilt but can’t be bothered to reassure or comfort me when I’m worried.

In terms of a media black out - no it isn't a black out, but your local paper isn't going to report every week throughout winter that your hospital went into black status!! That isn't news 🤷🏻‍♀️

I remember when black alert was news. Now it is normal. It’s actually newsworthy not to be in it in winter.

As a patient I’d rather have a nurse who is genuinely interested and cares than one who is qualified to the hilt but can’t be bothered to reassure or comfort me when I’m worried.

And as patient I’d rather have a nurse who has the education and skills to recognise that I’m deteriorating post op and get me to ICU, than someone “caring” who’ll stroke my hair when I’m feeling sad ¯\(ツ)/¯

Well said youalreadyknow. I appreciate the empathetic caring side of nursing is vital, but equally nurses should be able to pick up promptly on subtle signs of sepsis, abnormal blood results and vital signs etc.

, the nhs is unsustainable and has been for years. We need a new model. this. Fact is that current health doesn’t fit with that which the NHS was originally intended for, and yet people’s health conditions increase and they still expect the same treatment with no more funding. It’s just not sustainable.

The NHS needs to stop funding unnecessary and low success procedures/treatments such as IVF. Things like free prescriptions need to be re-visited. Yes give free prescriptions for life-long medication but there’s no need for all prescriptions to be free if you have one life-long condition. E.g. there is absolutely no need for paracetamol to be available on free prescription when you can buy it in the chemist for 35P. And then perhaps question why certain conditions warrant free prescriptions and others don’t? E.g. diabetes/thyroid medication is free but heart medication is not. Even anti rejection drugs for transplant patients aren’t given free, so why other conditions. perhaps in fact it’s time that this system was re-visited entirely, especially given the increase in some of the free-prescription warranting conditions.

I work in a care home for elderly patients with complex dementia and mobility problems - patients are regularly discharged too early from the local hospitals and are then returned because their care in hospital was inadequate - recently a gentleman was discharged with undetected pneumonia and died (most probably prematurely) - aside from the obvious difficulties thrown up by our ageing population, I’m a bit of a judgemental bastard and really think we need to look, as a nation, at how much we booze, how much processed crap we eat, how little exercise we take and how shocking our mental health is - we need to look at ways of making our lifestyles healthier - I bloody despair - I wish I could f**k off abroad ...

Others like Germany through a mix of taxation and compulsory insurance paid by employers.

In Germany covered by a mix of employer AND employee contributions! A large amount is deducted every month from salaries and wages. I get a GP appointment the same day and a dentist appointment within a few days .

To be honest come October my trust is on black or occasionally red most days. It isn't new but after my 15 winters in the nhs I feel like it's definitely getting busier and less manageable and that's just paediatrics.

I'd like to know more about the German health care system? I do believe it's very well run and highly efficient?

But the Germans pay more for it?
Under Blair the hospitals near me failed. Not failing, failed.

They are much better now. The whole NHS needs overhauling and tightening up.
It needs a massive review and comparisons to places like Germany to see what we can do.

Chucking more money at it, in its current set up will not help.