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Media black out about NHS?

72 replies

HelloCheeky · 10/11/2019 16:18

According to our local FB site both our local hospitals are on black alert as they are beyond capacity. People are also posting to say that this is a widespread problem over the country but it's deliberately not being reported. Does anyone have information about this?

OP posts:
TooStressyTooMessy · 10/11/2019 19:01

Black alert (or whatever your local hospital chooses to call it) is normal these days. Many people are completely unaware of how bad things are in the NHS. But it’s ok because Boris is going to get us more GPs, despite having no plans to improve working conditions or any of the issues leading to the crisis in GP recruitment and retention Hmm.

postitnot · 10/11/2019 19:01

Our hospital is putting out on social media several times a day notices to stop people coming unless they really do have an actual emergency.

I do think some of the things that people tip up to A&E could be dealt with elsewhere.
But I agree that the NHS is on it's knees and needs a new model.

Ellapaella · 10/11/2019 19:05

@postitnot totally agree. Unfortunately people struggle to get a GP appointment in a timely fashion (not the fault of GP's just high demand) which just compounds the problem in people going to A&E and walk in centres for routine problems.

Passthecherrycoke · 10/11/2019 19:07

@postitnot I was I wondering about this. People have posted about wait times of 20
Hours: this is surely an average, as not all A&E patients are equal. So there must be plenty of people there who would be treated in a different way? Those people waiting 20 hours, they surely don’t need urgent medical attention. Why can’t an appointment be made elsewhere for them the next day (which is only a few hours away)

A family member is a matron in A&E- she said despite the media focus on drunk teens they are actually stuffed to the rafters with old people, usually after they’ve fallen, or have flu etc. And this is a large university city, who certainly do see their fair share of drunks also

eeyore228 · 10/11/2019 19:10

It’s in the news fairly frequently but tbh not many people really seem to care until they have to experience it. And it will be the ones with the 1yr old toe pain who make more of a fuss about the wait. People hear the word busy but have no clue. My DH and I work for the NHS and I desperately want him to get a different job because the pressure and expectation is horrendous. We barely have a family life and it’s seriously affected his own health. The whole situation is sad.

AutumnRose1 · 10/11/2019 19:11

“ It doesn't happen in other countries”

I’m probably being a total ignoramus but don’t know which other countries have a similar system or how they deal with it.

I had to take mum to a London A&E in summer, it was about 6 hours. Big shout out to all the amazing staff.

Passthecherrycoke · 10/11/2019 19:14

We waited 9 hours to be seen in A&E in NYC last year, it seemed perfectly standard, all the locals expected the wait. They also would go out and get food and come back- one couple invited us to dinner with them whilst we waited 🤣 we were all tight lipped and British and muttering about being nil by mouth just in case and not leaving the queue under any circumstances

TooStressyTooMessy · 10/11/2019 19:27

It’s in the news fairly frequently but tbh not many people really seem to care until they have to experience it.

This.

taybert · 10/11/2019 19:30

I’m a GP. Other countries don’t have a healthcare system like ours. The free at the point of access system is sacred in this country but there’s never any honest discussion about how this is completely unsustainable. If you increase capacity, demand just goes up and outstrips it. This has always been the case and every politician knows it, but not one of them will tackle it head on. None of them will tell the public what they can realistically expect of this service. Matt Hancock pledged 6000 new GPs and said that it would be easy to get appointments just as we expect with all the other services we use- but what other service can you book an appointment for any reason you like, with a highly trained professional, and pay not one single penny at the point where you access that? And you can go to that appointment and talk about something entirely non medical and make all sorts of demands and you still won’t pay a penny. You can repeatedly turn up with the same problem, which is still completely inappropriate and you still won’t pay a penny. In fact, you don’t even need to turn up at all, you can miss the appointment, then book another one and miss that too, and you still won’t pay a penny. There isn’t another service like that.

Surely, by now, everyone knows that the health service is, at best, at breaking point. I’d go as far as to say in many areas it is broken, but last week I still had people wanting an appointment with me for a verruca and wanting me to write them letters so they could get off their parking fines. What’s more, they got quite angry when told that we weren’t able to provide that.

We need to have a proper, frank discussion about what this healthcare model is able to provide and the public need to decide if that’s the service they want. I am sick to the back teeth of magic cupboards full of GPs and nurses and mythical piles of money that are apparently going to solve the problem whilst everyone skirts around the real issue. I can’t keep doing this and I’m not alone.

Ellapaella · 10/11/2019 19:35

@taybert I 100% agree with everything you have said. You have articulated what I would like to say so well. Politicians need to start being honest about the NHS because it's totally unsustainable as it stands right now.

AutumnRose1 · 10/11/2019 19:36

taybert

Thank you for your hard work.

I was thinking that it doesn’t happen in our countries because we are unique in our set up, so that pp comment confused me.

mumum1 · 10/11/2019 19:38

@taybert

100% agree with you

taybert · 10/11/2019 19:39

Well it felt good to get that off my chest Grin

TooStressyTooMessy · 10/11/2019 19:40

I am still in healthcare but had to walk away from truly frontline work for my own and my family’s sanity. I still feel guilty for leaving years later but I just couldn’t do it anymore. taybert, you are exactly right.

cptartapp · 10/11/2019 19:40

^ this (practice nurse here). One in four PN's are retiring in the next ten years, myself included. The general public would be horrified if they sat in my clinic for a day with people's unrealistic expectations and demands and no-shows, of all ages.

NationMcKinley · 10/11/2019 19:42

What @taybert said.

My local hospital has been on black alert 3 times in the last 4 weeks. It is not that uncommon at this time of year. But........ the NHS is being driven into the ground by this government. Remember that in December.

TooStressyTooMessy · 10/11/2019 19:48

Unfortunately, this is the case:

It’s in the news fairly frequently but tbh not many people really seem to care until they have to experience it.

missyB1 · 10/11/2019 19:52

Dh regularly tells me the hospital he works in is on “Death con 5” what he likes to call black alert! No one would think of talking about it in the media because it’s an everyday occurrence really.

For the pp who said surely no very sick people are waiting for hours and hours, err... well yes I’m afraid they do actually.

coconuttelegraph · 10/11/2019 19:53

I don't think there's a news blackout, I've read about hospitals relatively close to me being in this position. Maybe it was on facebook I don't remember but I definitely knew about it, possibly it depends on the part of the country you are in.

TheHootiestOwl · 10/11/2019 19:53

I used to be a bed manager, being on black alert is not uncommon. Especially in winter. It doesn’t necessarily mean every individual area has no capacity. For example paediatrics may be ok or surgery.

Hospitals can and do divert if there is no capacity but they try and avoid it as much as possible. Patients for ITU do get taken out of area if there are no spaces locally. They are always looking at which patients can be stepped down to the wards or HDU.

Joerev · 10/11/2019 19:56

I had an adrenal crisis. (Rare. Most drs haven’t seen it). It’s life threatening. The protocol is to have IV steroids immediately. I got taken to triage. Where the nurse could t even spell my condition and I had to wait 7 hrs whilst dying.....my husband had to go get a dr who was shocked and asked if I’d had IV steroids. When my husband said no. He nearly passed out and made sure I got them ASAP.

postitnot · 10/11/2019 19:56

Taybert

Exactly right, totally unsustainable. My friend who is a gp said exactly the same, but you put it more eloquently.

Thank you for keeping going

Ellapaella · 10/11/2019 19:59

I don't think there's a media blackout, why would there be? The thing is even if it was in the media there is absolutely nothing that anyone can do about it, we can't solve this problem without having honest discussions about the future of the NHS.
No one can work any harder than they already are, we can't conjure up more nurses and doctors out of thin air and we can't create hospital beds out of nothing either. Throwing money at the NHS won't help - there is a very real and serious recruitment and retention crisis of both medical and nursing staff that won't be solved by any of the false promises of the current political parties.

Graphista · 10/11/2019 20:59

I’m so gonna get flamed!!

I find it very interesting the hcps on this thread stating that uncomfortable truths need to be faced, because imo ONE of those uncomfortable truths is the fact that hcps aren’t always blameless in how things are being run either.

Right from people who willingly accept cheap training in this country to gain them hcp qualifications which they then almost immediately use to allow them to emigrate to countries where they will use those skills and knowledge to get better paid jobs, now I expect I will be told that’s their choice - which would be fair enough IF their training was paid in full by them.

Then there’s hcps who don’t treat patients well, yes they may be in their minority but that minority in my (and from reading MANY posts of similar experiences here, other sites, in press etc) experience is sadly increasing. I don’t know why, some will say it’s because pay and conditions for hcps are poor but they always have been especially for nurses yet they never used to take it out on the patients the way they do seem to now.

I’m an ex hcp myself and I trained and worked in the nhs the last time the tories were trying to fuck it up and I do know the stresses hcps can be under and also appreciate because I’m being told by friends/ex colleagues that it’s even worse now BUT those same friends and ex colleagues are also telling me that;

Recruitment processes are fucked up, there’s too much emphasis on academic ability and not enough on qualities of compassion, empathy and understanding. A lot of trainee nurses I’m being told are refusing to do what they consider “menial” tasks because they think they’re above doing eg obs, cleaning bedpans, washing patients...

Middle managers/mentors are not being supported in terms of educating trainees as to how they treat patients so they’re learning/embedding bad habits.

Newly qualified hcps are expecting to be able to set their own shifts according to their own personal needs (and I’m not talking things like childcare but things like ‘I’m not working weekends I want to still have a social life’, have days off pretty much on a whim, pick and choose which tasks they’ll do.

As a patient and from some research too, some of which is finally reaching the MSM there are issues around medical misogyny and patients not being listened to.

One way I honestly believe would free up a LOT of gp appointments is if gps listened to patients more effectively and didn’t dismiss them.

I have asked on mn on several occasions and not one hcp has ever responded regarding my own experience of having classic symptoms of endo for 14 years and being repeatedly dismissed and not once being referred to gynae. I was prescribed medication to treat certain symptoms which only masked the condition. I would have needed a hell of a lot fewer gp appointments and in all likelihood not needed several surgeries etc if I’d been referred, dx and treated far earlier.

I posted a thread on medical misogyny last year around this time, responses from hcps were conspicuous by their absence! There were many examples of mners and their loved ones going to gps REPEATEDLY with the same symptoms and being REPEATEDLY dismissed or at most being prescribed medication to mask symptoms but not actually getting a dx often until they ended up in hospital at a&e because the condition itself or other conditions caused by it reached crisis stage. Often the treatment for the correct dx was something relatively simple. I somewhat expected examples relating to gynae/obstetrics what I was shocked by were how many examples there were relating to conditions suffered by both sexes. But posters were saying men they knew who had presented to gps with similar symptoms etc were not dismissed but tested/referred, dx and appropriately treated. 2 of the main conditions that kept coming up were gall bladder disease and thyroid disease which seem to be woefully under dx and treated in women.

One hcp on this thread has said about patients going to the gp repeatedly for the same condition - well maybe the gp should be considering the patient isn’t getting the correct treatment or it’s been misdiagnosed and needs more thorough investigation and the RIGHT treatment.

If patients were listened to, tested/referred/dx and treated within say the first 3 times of reporting the SAME symptoms at gp level then they wouldn’t NEED to be using up many gp appointments trying to get the help they need.

IMO there are 3 key issues that need addressed to improve the nhs:

1 funding - yes I know it’s not as simple as “throw money at it” but NOT funding it is stupid too, no service runs on fresh air!

2 better recruitment criteria and training for hcps, better practice by hcps The woeful lack of training & understanding regarding women’s health and mental health (not only within mh but it’s impact on physical health too), teaching hcps better listening skills and I’m sure there’s more

3 better education for general public of what hcp for what type of ailment

I have been very vocal in supporting the use of pharmacists, nurse practitioners etc. I’m also quite vocal on self care for minor ailments (we seem to have massively lost that knowledge between my generation and not quite the next generation but the one in between kind of? I was raised by parents who were very keen on and confident in using self care)

Unless there are complicating factors people really don’t need a gp appointment for the vast majority of minor ailments. Most can be treated with self care and if not then ask a pharmacist and if that’s not enough then nurse practitioner. Things like colds & flu, sore throats, headaches, sprains and strains, small cuts, scrapes and bruises, minor allergies, minor skin rashes can be treated with basic common sense approaches.

We even see threads on here mners complaining they can’t get a gp appointment then either in op or more commonly later in thread it becomes apparent that all that’s wrong with them is bloody sniffles anyway! Go to bed, with plenty of tissues, drink plenty, dose up on lemsip etc if necessary and have a bit of a pity party by all means but you don’t need to see a gp for that!!

It’ll never run perfectly but then no health service does, but it can run a lot better than it is now.

Ellapaella · 10/11/2019 21:24

What 'cheap' training is that then graphista? You are aware that nurses pay full fees the same as everyone else now for their degree?
How is medical school 'cheap'?

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