Impact of being vegan from birth

[Notcontent]

I could be wrong but it seems to me that there haven’t been any studies on the impact of being vegan all your life, from birth. I have been doing a bit of research into this lately (just internet research!) as my dd decided to stop eating meat (although she is not vegan) and I think part of her reason (as a young teen) was the fact that quite a few of her friends have become vegan.

It seems to me that you have to be incredibly disciplined to make sure you get all the right nutrients...

Healthy sources of Vitamin B12:

Beetroot
Alfalfa
Butternut squash
Mushrooms
Potatoes
Apples
Bananas
Blueberries
Mango
Oranges.

... someone on an omnivorous diet can eat crap six days out of seven but probably also manage to meet all their dietary requirements while they do so.

Although they’re also likely to die of cancer or a heart attack in the process.

B12 is also easily supplemented. I don’t see the point of compromising your health eating a bad meat-heavy diet when you can eat plant-based healthy foods and just pop a B12 tablet.

That's exactly my point though Megan I'm not saying it is a bad diet, it's a very healthy diet with a few added supplements which will depend on how much effort you put into making sure you are getting everything & despite lists on here to the contrary, a good B12 supplement & natural D 3 is advisable too as we don't get enough of that in the northern hemisphere even with plenty of diary etc

That B12 Fid list is absolute bollocks

From the vegan society...

Sources of vitamin B12
Vitamin B12 is made by micro-organisms, and isn't produced by plants. Fortified foods and supplements are the only proven reliable sources for vegans:

www.vegansociety.com/resources/nutrition-and-health/nutrients/vitamin-b12

You clearly need to educate yourself better in nutrition if you are going to be a vegan & remain healthy 🤷‍♀️

I watched a programme on this
The nutritionist said you can do it but it takes planning to ensure the child gets enough protein, b vitamins, iron and d vitamins
Many Omnivorous children are lacking vitamins but it doesn’t get reported in the news Such as the case of the malnourished vegan child.
I’ve been vegetarianism/ vegan all of my life and brought both my kids up mainly vegan

• at weaning and toddler ages kids can be fussy eaters and not eat very much

If your children like humous and protein rich foods like peanut butter, it’s probably not too hard. Say neither of mine liked humous I gave them lots of nuts and bean dishes They both turned to meat at school and a grandparents house. It upset me a lot but it’s not my choice I suppose to tell them how to eat unless it’s in our home where they’re vegetarian / mainly vegan Anyway the programme was saying it is hard to get enough protein into young bodies. But it is definitely doable If it’s done correctly, it may be the best thing you can do for your kids!

About b12
It takes around 20 years to become deficient in this vitamin
It happened to me -
I was having palpitations and could barely walk - every single thing was a struggle
When the gp finally found it I had this deficiency, they said it takes 20 years to become as low and Ill from it as I was
I still have muscular pain
Not sure if it’s because of that though

• a recent doc ‘the game changers’ which heavily promotes plant based eating says that vegans should be supplementing with b12

The only animal product I eat is eggs from rescue hens They have plenty of b12 so I try not to worry plus I still supplement

I wss vegan for 8 years and did it in what I thought was a healthy, educated way having B12 and calcium fortified soya milk, marmite, cereals etc.

I became ill and a B12 deficiency was diagnosed. I still have 3 monthly injections now as my body doesn't seem to retain it.

I know of a few other vegans who have had to have emergency B12 injections. I also know some who haven't needed this.

Also I was vitamin D deficient and a bone scan revealed low bone density. I started eating dairy and eggs again and my bone density increased significantly.

I really agree with the ethics of a vegan diet but for some reason doesn't seem healthy for some people.

Constant

If it takes 20 years to become deficient, can you explain how come my DD was deficient at about 6 onwards until we finally got doctors to treat her at 14 when 6 B12 injections got her out of a wheelchair

Your doctor told you porky pies I'm afraid, but unfortunately there is a lot of ignorance in the medical profession around B12 deficiency.

Yes you can store B12 in a healthy liver if you've eaten plenty, but it won't last anything like 20 years & probably not at all if you you haven't replenished B12 stores.

What also concerns me is that a lot of people, like us, can't process B12 properly. Some can't process it at all, though I believe that shows up as obvious B12 deficiency very young. If you don't process B12 adequately, but have got away with it with a meat based diet, then even pills might not be enough B12

& yes, I agree, it's a nasty, insidious deficiency & im sorry that you suffered, but as bad as you were, you actually got off lightly, my DB is never going to recover from the stroke is caused him to have & I have trouble with 5 cervical discs & 3 lumbar ones (SACD) as a result of it that will never heal. The injections did get my daughter out of a wheelchair & instantly after 1 injection stopped the burning nerve pain that the medics had diagnosed as CRPS, but it's left her with raging anxiety & other ASD type symptoms as she wasn't treat quick enough

MeganTheVegan, that list of foods containing B12 is not accurate.

Taken from the Vegan Society:

Very low B12 intakes can cause anemia and nervous system damage. The only reliable vegan sources of B12 are foods fortified with B12 (including some plant milks, some soy products and some breakfast cereals) and B12 supplements. Vitamin B12, whether in supplements, fortified foods, or animal products, comes from micro-organisms. Most vegans consume enough B12 to avoid anemia and nervous system damage, but many do not get enough to minimize potential risk of heart disease or pregnancy complications.

Gosh what a topic. Back to OPs question, I think its difficult for a teenager. Using an app like MFP or Cronometer is brilliant. You enter your food and it gives you the nutritional content breakdown and targets for the day based on weight, age etc. I found it really educative. Its not that hard to get adequate B12 (I eat fish and meat, I don't think it is hard on a veggie diet especially with fortified foods, it would be hard on a restricted diet). However it is surprisingly hard to get enough iron and zinc according to my logging. I often have to top up with spatone. Zincatest is brilliant. It is a liquid and the taste of it tells you if you are zinc deficient (it changes).

It might put your DD off when she realises what she has to eat, or it might make her creative in the kitchen! Also a compromise might be to go Pescatarian (eat fish) or Flexitarian (no red meat).

Thanks for that Holi I've never heard of that App & I've a vegetarian teen who is a nightmare to get adequate protein to into at times, the app sounds great

Rockin hippy

I was so low in b12 that the gp said it would have taken about 20 years to get so low - You should know that gps all have different levels of understanding and education on b12- seems like its a relatively new discovery in the medical world

I’m sorry to hear of your db s awful trouble.

I would like to add that I didn’t get off lightly as you assume:
I was wheel chaired if I had to go out, I was housebound for nearly a year. I’ve got terrible anxiety, I can’t sleep without medication for painful joints and muscles
I’ve had to give up full time work and struggle daily to do part time
I also have cognitive issues and horrendous fatigue which can be debilitating at times

But at the same time I was diagnosed with b12 deficiency (for which I had 8 months of injections)
I also found out I had Epstein Barr virus so I am not sure what to blame for all of my health problems

It really isn't a new discovery Constance it goes right back to the 30s, & 40s, treatment & detection was far better back then, it is sadly much forgotten by a lot of doctors- that's well documented with PAS & B12.org etc & definitely the case with our doctors, plus DF & DBs, who are at 2 different parts of the country, similar stories with other family elsewhere too. I've been quite gobsmacked at some of the ignorance I have encountered on several occasions,

Unfortunately the fault lies with medical training, unless they have a special interest in nutrition p, they get about 4 hours total on the effects of all guts & minerals, so hardly surprising there is so much ignorance

What you put in your last post sounds very like me. Epstein bar was ruled out a few times for me & I still have those symptoms now & im sorry that you do too.

Have you looked at other deficiencies too?? I ask as problems metabolising B12 seems to go hand in hand with other similar problems, we had genetic testing done & cant properly process thiamine, B6, & need more D than the UK range & cant convert folic into folate well either. Thiamine in particular surprised me as it literally cured what I had been told was trigger finger & the resulting arthritis in my left hand. 3 days of high dose Thiamine/B1 & it went completely & comes back if I forget my thiamine for a few days. My DB had the same thing confirmed at an NHS metabolic centre up near Salford

Hi,
This is my first post and sorry it's long!

I have been vegan since 2016. I became pregnant in 2017 and had an extremely healthy pregnancy. My midwife was happy with my diet and all my blood results (iron, vitd), blood pressure etc were excellent. I was 40 when I gave birth to a healthy 7lb 12oz boy. This is compared to when I was 18 and had my first child (I wasn't vegan) I had high blood pressure which led to me being in hospital for a week after my baby was born.

I know pregnancies are different but just wanted to share. My little boy has been vegan since birth he will be 2 in December, is very healthy, has been on the 90th percentile for weight and height since birth and has most of his milk teeth through. The midwives and health visitors I have seen since he has been born - we always went to clinic - have all been extremely positive about his diet. Even when I asked if he needed to have his levels checked or anything they said no that actually his diet is probably healthier than 90% of children.
I didn't do anything special, I eat the same things I did - Bolognese, casseroles, shepherds pie etc I just use lentils, chickpeas and other things instead of meat.
I am still breastfeeding - the NHS recommends that all children are breastfed till 2 - and he has had the recommended vitamins - a,c and d, that the NHS recommended all children have.

In cases of malnutrition and 'strict vegan diets' this has less to do with the parents being vegan and more to do with them being neglectful and abusive. If you look deeper into the stories you often see this and there are a lot of children unfortunately who are malnourished on an omnivore diet but they don't make the headlines. 'awful vegans' sells more papers. There was a case quite recently where the child couldn't walk as her bones were so brittle, it transpires that she was given not much more than rice milk and oats to eat and her parents never took her outside, they hadn't even registered the birth.

Yes there is a lot of misinformation out there but on both sides of the fence. For example there was a recent report that made the headlines where a scientist published a study stating that vegan diets were extremely detrimental to children's health. This study was not supported by the majority of her peers and it turns out that she had ties to the meat industry. You have to be careful and look beyond what is written.

I'm not saying you don't have to be mindful of making sure that your child is getting the right nutrition but don't you have to do that anyway regardless of what diet you eat?!

There is plenty of advice and help out there - the vegan society, the NHS and also first steps nutrition who have produced an excellent guide on raising vegan children including recipes and advice on vitamins and minerals. There are also lots of excellent documentaries out there too. Forks over knives being a great one about plant based diets and health - not veganism (as being vegan is more than a diet).

The bottom line is that it is perfectly possible to get all the nutrients and protein the body needs on a vegan diet and actually it is healthier, it takes a little planning and learning at first but I have to say what I have learnt about nutrition on this journey has been great - wish I'd known it years ago!

Anyway I am currently 41 and pregnant again. I just wanted to share my view and hope you find it useful xx

Rockin hippy
Could we chat ?
My email is [email protected]
It’s about our health issues rather than the post and I don’t want to hijack this lovely mums post

The bottom line is that it is perfectly possible to get all the nutrients and protein the body needs on a vegan diet and actually it is healthier, it takes a little planning and learning at first but I have to say what I have learnt about nutrition on this journey has been great - wish I'd known it years ago!

That's your view & you're experience so far, but unfortunately it isn't born out by scientific fact. See my earlier posts for relevant links

I'm really glad that you seem to have got away with it, but you don't say how old your DCs are. Mine was about 8 before it became more noticeable, but we were reassured that her blood results said she was okay & I didn't question that at the time. Once puberty begins to kick in, they need even more B12 & as puberty cranks up,more still. By 12 it had put my DD in a wheelchair.

It’s not damaging or even difficult at all, provided you have a balanced diet and know what you’re doing. If your child lives on nuggets and fries then they’ll be unhealthy, in the same way if a vegan child lived on hummus and pita. My children will be brought up vegan, but I was raised veggie and been vegan for years, so I know what they need. It’s the families who go vegan overnight without doing any research who end up unhealthy.

Constance maybe start another thread & tag me in it?

I've a neck injury making typing extra difficult atm, I run out of typing steam pdq. There's others on here that I've seen are very knowledgeable in B12 issues too,might be good fir you to get others experiences too as B12 symptoms can hit us in so many different ways

Actually there is a wealth of scientific evidence that states you can get all the nutrients you need. I've done my research. I'm sorry you've had a bad experience with your daughter, however there are swathes of people across the world who have followed a plant based diet their whole lives and they are perfectly healthy. You have to ensure you are getting the nutrients your body needs which means that you should probably supplement but, as has been mentioned before, everyone should take a B12 and vit D supplement regardless of how you eat. Plenty of food is fortified - including bread and most plant based milks, yoghurts and cheeses. You only have to read reports by the WHO and many of the world's leading scientists and doctors that advocate the health benefits of a plant based diet. It takes planning and it takes care.

It's not impossible to have a healthy vegan diet at any age, just need to be informed. The regular omni diet is easier of course, the information and produce is available everywhere.

I had trouble getting enough iron when I was pescatarian (had eggs & fish) so I don't see how I'd get enough if vegan. I like & ate plenty of all the (relatively) high iron vegan foods, too.

The longest living people in the world, now called the blue zones eat plant based diets that are rich in leafy green vegetables, fruits, whole grains and legumes. They don’t over eat, avoid sugar and processed foods.

They are also generally not vegan. Whilst their diet may be high in plants and low in animal products, animal products aren't absent completely. There are very few genuinely vegan populations.

I also think it's likely that there's considerable variation between individuals as to how appropriate/healthy a vegan diet can be.

Every time I've tried to research if there are any historically vegan cultures, the groups described are not vegan at all and consume limited amounts of animal products in various forms.