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Original poster

Landlady selling our flat, discussions about cleaning and tidying

119 replies

Summerbreezes · 21/10/2019 21:13

I live in a small flat with my DH. Our landlady has been trying to sell for a few months. We've had several viewings and I've insisted that all estate agents give me notice of viewings. It's a very good flat but no offers so far, because the housing market has slowed right down. The price has been reduced but still no offers. It's the sort of flat that would've been sold within a week if this had happened five years ago. We don't want to move anyway.

Also we renewed our tenancy agreement a couple of months ago. LL wants to keep us on as tenants to get money for as long as possible.

LL phoned me this evening to say she's had feedback from a couple of estate agents to say that our flat apparently isn't very clean or tidy. I'm not sure if this is the agents' view or the viewers' view. I personally believe that agents in general have an unrealistic view of how clean people should keep their homes, plus it's none of their business anyway.

LL has now said she's coming round later this week to inspect our flat. The thing is we already know she's a bit of a hygeine freak and a minimalist and she's already commented on how much stuff we have, even though we have an average amount of stuff with no storage space so it's visible. I already said on the phone that it's not our job to market the flat or make it look perfect. We live here. She's obviously desperate to sell but also wants to keep on good terms with us so that we cooperate but this is getting way too intrusive. We pay our rent every month and we're good tenants, but at the same time I'm not about to start moving my stuff and have a spring clean just so that someone else can sell my home.

We have been more than reasonable with the estate agents and not turned down one single viewing, even though we know we technically don't have to let anyone in at all so we've been very fair and far more cooperative than we need to be.

I know different people have different cleaning standards but this is our home and I don't need to be tidying up for visitors that I don't even want.

OP posts:

YummiYummiYummi · 21/10/2019 21:15

I'm not an expert but I'm pretty sure you can refuse her. Something about the right to live privately. Someone clever will come along soon though

JustHereWithPopcorn · 21/10/2019 21:21

Sounds like you are cooperating very well. If I was you I would have a good clean before the landlady comes round so she can she you are being reasonable and not bother about cleaning before every viewing.

CalmFizz · 21/10/2019 21:25

How long is the notice period she’s obliged to give you with the new tenancy agreement? I think I’d be less willing to do her viewings and expect the notice to come sooner rather than later.

AthollPlace · 21/10/2019 21:30

Tell her no, you’re entitled to quiet enjoyment of the property so you won’t be letting her in. And tell her the tidiness of the property is none of her business, if she wants it to be tidy she needs to not rent it out.

Original poster

Summerbreezes · 21/10/2019 21:31

Two months' notice.

Asking us to allow viewings is reasonable. Asking us to do more cleaning is not.

OP posts:

Original poster

Summerbreezes · 21/10/2019 21:37

She actually wants us to move some of our stuff.

OP posts:

Napqueen1234 · 21/10/2019 21:42

Tbh it sounds from your post to me that your house is a bit of a mess. I’d be mortified if estate agents of viewers commented that my house was messy or dirty. Realistically the landlord can do her check and if she isn’t happy should serve you the notice and get it cleaned ready to sell as technically you don’t owe her to keep to clean however as a matter of pride I feel I would.

KanelbulleKing · 21/10/2019 21:43

She's taking the piss, tell her to jog on. You don't even need to allow viewings so you're already going beyond what you're supposed to do.

SnowsInWater · 21/10/2019 21:45

If she wants to stage her flat to sell then she needs vacant possession, you certainly don't have to agree to moving your stuff, or doing any extra cleaning. When you look around tenanted properties as a buyer you generally expect them not to be shown to their best advantage, often tenants are pissed off their home is being sold so have little motivation to help the process. I am not saying that's you but your landlady needs to understand that as long as you pay rent your rights to quiet enjoyment trump her desire to sell. If you are feeling nice you could tell her that if she wants to pay for a weekly cleaner while the property is on the market you will agree to that but she can't keep coming round to check on things.

AwkwardSquad · 21/10/2019 21:46

You could always see if you can negotiate a rent reduction in exchange for an agreed level of tidying before a viewing, to compensate for the inconvenience and interruption to your right to quiet enjoyment. She wants the best of both worlds, so see if you can get some advantage from that.

Original poster

Summerbreezes · 21/10/2019 21:48

Only on Mumsnet! I've never heard anyone use the word mortified in real life. In real life, most people's homes don't look like the Ikea catalogue.

OP posts:

francienolan · 21/10/2019 21:49

...where does she expect you to move it? Is she providing some kind of storage? Even so, that's a cheeky request.

theemmadilemma · 21/10/2019 21:50

If she were willing to pay costs would you be able to put some bits in storage until you move?

Original poster

Summerbreezes · 21/10/2019 21:51

No, we are not willing to put anything in storage. It's a totally unreasonable request.

OP posts:

Finchy19 · 21/10/2019 21:52

Your home whilst you have a tenancy. She can't make you clean so long as you arent causing damage and you return the property how you were given it on leaving minus wear and tear.

If she wants a show home she needs to evict you and then sell she can't have her cake and eat it.

Also, if you renewed is there not a fixed term?

Judystilldreamsofhorses · 21/10/2019 21:56

I think that if she wants the flat to look minimalist and spotless, she needs to give you notice, then dress it how she wants. That way estate agents could show it 24/7. Given that she presumably doesn’t want it sitting empty while it’s on the market, she needs to be a bit more reasonable - it's your home, not a show-home.

Aquamarine1029 · 21/10/2019 21:57

You're entitled to dig your heels in all you want, but if you won't clean up then you need to start packing and find a new place to live. She needs to sell so she will give you notice in short order, I'm sure.

cabbageking · 21/10/2019 22:04

Is there nothing in your contract about keeping the place clean and tidy?

gilchrist168 · 21/10/2019 22:09

Ring Shelter for advice. Here is a link.
It's for England, but they also do advice for Wales and Scotland.
england.shelter.org.uk/get_help
I'm sure that they will be able to tell you your legal rights, I think that you have been very accommodating so far. All good wishes.

mclover · 21/10/2019 22:33

Tell her she can pay for a cleaner to visit before each viewing? Then you can get your flat cleaned for free ha

Chloemol · 21/10/2019 22:34

if She wants you to move stuff out, then she can pay for storage

But to be honest I would be looking to give notice and move now rather than when’s she sells, especially if you know you are going to have to move. Then it’s her problem if she doesn’t get any rental income

RedPurpleyBlue · 21/10/2019 22:41

I was in this situation last year, where my landlord put my flat up for sale and I'd signed a new tenancy agreement a couple months beforehand.

Check your tenancy agreement, but you normally don't even have to allow viewings if you don't want to. Most say you only have to allow viewings at the end of tenancy. I told the estate agent I'd allows viewing but only on two specific days a week. The landlord was keen not to piss me off because as you said, they want an income while they're trying to sell.

Can you leave your tenancy early? Or do you have a fixed term tenancy? Do you have a break clause? If you don't have the option to leave the tenancy then they can't chuck you out either and your tenancy continues even if they sell the place. This is probably what's putting off the buyers the most.

Your landlady is a CF. If she keeps being intrusive then restrict the viewings. If you can leave then definitely keep your eyes open for suitable properties and leave once you've found something.

As far as I'm concerned if they want the freedom to have the flat however they want and allow viewings wherever possible then they have to live with no tenants and no one paying their mortgage. Otherwise, it's on your terms.

FlyingPenguine · 21/10/2019 22:55

I would probably find somewhere new to live. It does sound like your flat is quite messy tbh, but if you want to live like that its your right.

ConfCall · 21/10/2019 22:58

Have you found anywhere to go?

I thin that you’re in the right but do you need a reference from her?

RogersVideo · 21/10/2019 23:01

Yeah that would massively irritate me OP. It's your home, you can have things where you like!

Suggest that perhaps if your possessions are putting off buyers, it would be best if you no longer did viewings.

She is really trying to have her cake and eat it.

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