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Original poster

Landlady selling our flat, discussions about cleaning and tidying

119 replies

Summerbreezes · 21/10/2019 21:13

I live in a small flat with my DH. Our landlady has been trying to sell for a few months. We've had several viewings and I've insisted that all estate agents give me notice of viewings. It's a very good flat but no offers so far, because the housing market has slowed right down. The price has been reduced but still no offers. It's the sort of flat that would've been sold within a week if this had happened five years ago. We don't want to move anyway.

Also we renewed our tenancy agreement a couple of months ago. LL wants to keep us on as tenants to get money for as long as possible.

LL phoned me this evening to say she's had feedback from a couple of estate agents to say that our flat apparently isn't very clean or tidy. I'm not sure if this is the agents' view or the viewers' view. I personally believe that agents in general have an unrealistic view of how clean people should keep their homes, plus it's none of their business anyway.

LL has now said she's coming round later this week to inspect our flat. The thing is we already know she's a bit of a hygeine freak and a minimalist and she's already commented on how much stuff we have, even though we have an average amount of stuff with no storage space so it's visible. I already said on the phone that it's not our job to market the flat or make it look perfect. We live here. She's obviously desperate to sell but also wants to keep on good terms with us so that we cooperate but this is getting way too intrusive. We pay our rent every month and we're good tenants, but at the same time I'm not about to start moving my stuff and have a spring clean just so that someone else can sell my home.

We have been more than reasonable with the estate agents and not turned down one single viewing, even though we know we technically don't have to let anyone in at all so we've been very fair and far more cooperative than we need to be.

I know different people have different cleaning standards but this is our home and I don't need to be tidying up for visitors that I don't even want.

OP posts:
GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER · 21/10/2019 23:21

I am a LL and IMO your landlady is taking the P. Whatever your lease may say, your right to 'quiet enjoyment' of the property does not include random strangers traipsing around your home, so you are not legally obliged to allow viewings at all.

I would never expect my tenants to put up with this sort of thing. Your landlady wants to have her (rent-money) cake and eat it.

If she needs to sell and wants the place pristine for viewings, she should give you proper notice and get busy with her rubber gloves and Mr Muscle once the place is empty.

YobaOljazUwaque · 21/10/2019 23:47

Your tenancy agreement entitled you to quiet enjoyment of the property. It is your home. You are not obliged to let them do any viewings at all if you don't want to, much less do extra cleaning and tidying, and asking you to get rid of stuff is simply ridiculous. If they want to style the home to maximise marketability they can serve you notice, get vacant possession and then present it in perfect condition. Instead they want to keep receiving your rent. Well no. They can't both have their cake and eat it.

CherryChapst1ck · 21/10/2019 23:50

You sound like you don't care about living in a messy dirty house. And that's your right to a certain extent. Are you not bothered about feedback saying it's not clean though? From several people.

Anyway that's by the by. It's up to you how much you dig your heels in but I'd be expecting her to serve you notice before too long

cstaff · 22/10/2019 00:27

If you want to continue to live there indefinitely I would make a point of leaving dirty underwear lying around Grin. That should put a halt to her gallop. She knows she is pushing her luck.

Also I'm pretty sure that the house just looks lived in rather than looking like a show house and that is her problem until your lease is up.

Blankscreen · 22/10/2019 00:36

Thing is even if the flat is filthy all the time the LL wants your rent money she doesn't get a say in how tidy/clean or not you have the be for her viewings. The bloody cheek of some people.

ffswhatnext · 22/10/2019 00:54

I would refuse the visit from her tbh.
Ok it's a risk that she will serve you notice.
And? Not like she can serve the notice and you be out by the weekend. Will be a few months. By which time you would have moved anyway as surely you are looking around for somewhere else.

Yes, the reference could be affected. But I doubt she will go down the court route because she wants to earn money not spend it.

Really, tell her no and don't worry about it. If she becomes a real pain then I would stop viewings for a bit.

I know op cannot drag this out, but as long as she's paying rent, looking for somewhere else to live, and allowing visits the ll should be happy.

For those having a dig about the ops home. Remember that some places are like shoeboxes. Put a chair in the living room and the place looks cramped. Small rooms with the smallest of things out of place make a room appear untidy.

Some people mention clean and tidy when what they mean is the place is cluttered. Because when somewhere looks tidy it gives the illusion of clean.

exexpat · 22/10/2019 00:57

I had a similar situation a few years ago. I was renting a house but had already given notice (more than the required amount) as I had bought a house and was doing some work to it before moving in. The agents started doing viewings, but then complained that the house was not tidy enough and could I make sure it was looking good for potential new tenants.

Well, no: I was a recently widowed single parent with two primary aged children, one of whom was still in the nightmare reception 'settling in' stage of doing alternate mornings and afternoons, so I was back and forth to school three times a day and trying to organise work on the new house, deal with probate and generally sort my life out while also entertain a four-year-old for half the day. Putting away the laundry, keeping the kitchen pristine and making sure there was no lego on the floor were not my top priorities. I basically just laughed at them and said no. They decided not to have an more viewings until I moved out. FWIW I had viewed the house when it was occupied by a family with twin toddlers preparing to emigrate and was perfectly able to see past the clutter to decide it was OK.

Of course your LL could call your bluff and just give you notice so that the flat can be made magazine-perfect for viewers - have you already started looking around for somewhere else?

ffswhatnext · 22/10/2019 00:59

Also how a room is decorated can make a place look dirty or fantastic for some reason.

GrumpyHoonMain · 22/10/2019 01:03

Estate agents are used to selling properties with tenants living in it. For them to say your house is dirty means it probably is. Anyway that’s not a big deal - stuff like cleaning and leaving the house in a tip can come off your deposit. Where you may have problems is if she sells to someone who wants to rent out the property they could use the same estate agent to manage you, so if you don’t play ball now you may regret it if you like living there

Original poster
Summerbreezes · 22/10/2019 07:50

Some people mention clean and tidy when what they mean is the place is cluttered. Because when somewhere looks tidy it gives the illusion of clean.

This exactly. There isn't any storage space and it's a small flat.

Our flat is not "filthy". It's in an average state for a flat that people actually live in. For example one thing she mentioned is that we hadn't cleaned to the stove. We don't clean the stove every day FGS! Just clean it every so often.

Our landlady is a minimalist hygiene freak so even one little thing is going to look messy to her. And estate agents base their ideas of cleanliness on empty flats in showroom condition. They're totally unrealistic about how people actually keep their homes. In fact, that's one of the main reasons why the Tenancy Deposit Scheme was brought in, because too many agents and landlords were withholding deposits for normal wear and tear and were coming up with completely unreasonable excuses to blame tenants for everything.

OP posts:
Smelborp · 22/10/2019 08:04

I would give her a choice. She accepts that the flat will look lived in while showing people around, or you withdraw permission for viewings.

Numptydumptycat · 22/10/2019 08:11

OP I’ve been there except it was a house with 3 kids in it and we worked full time. It was absolutely shit preparing for viewings and making sure the place was spotless but it was actually in our lease so needs required.

We gave notice and moved out as quickly as we could. You have to move anyway she is selling the house so you might as well get on with it.

Kyvia · 22/10/2019 08:12

Are you looking for somewhere to move to though OP? It sounds like at any point you could be given 2 months notice? Or are you just hoping that the flat will be bought by an investor.

Original poster
Summerbreezes · 22/10/2019 08:14

You have to move anyway she is selling the house so you might as well get on with it.

See that's what I thought at first, but actually the housing market has slowed right down. I know of other flats in this block which have been on the market for ages.

OP posts:
Original poster
Summerbreezes · 22/10/2019 08:17

She's basically blaming the lack of sale on the argument that we have too much stuff, when in actual fact a lot of homes aren't selling right now because of the overall housing market. Any excuse to blame things on tenants.

OP posts:
mrssoap · 22/10/2019 08:17

You are totally right, it is your home and you choose how you wish to live. (As long as you are not damaging the property of course!)

As long as it's presentable when someone is viewing I wouldn't worry!! Presentable in that it's reasonably tidy really.

I recently had to move out of my rented home, I had viewings for 2 weeks every day it was so intrusive and I hated it so I feel your pain 😩

mrssoap · 22/10/2019 08:22

Also to add a previous poster said this landlady wants her cake and eat it too, and I agree. Cheek of it. If she wants to present the flat to her standards then she can have you move out first and not receive your rent!

Original poster
Summerbreezes · 22/10/2019 08:24

I would give her a choice. She accepts that the flat will look lived in while showing people around, or you withdraw permission for viewings.

Oh believe me I'm very seriously considering doing that. If I had any other visitors round and they started complaining about my home, they wouldn't be invited back again would they!

OP posts:
helacells · 22/10/2019 08:25

I would focus on finding another home. What if she gets a buyer this week and they close within a month? It's better to be prepared than be forced out.

Original poster
Summerbreezes · 22/10/2019 08:28

I would focus on finding another home. What if she gets a buyer this week and they close within a month? It's better to be prepared than be forced out.

The notice period is two months. And there's plenty of one-bedroom flats to rent around here, just that sales are slowing down.

OP posts:
averythinline · 22/10/2019 08:31

are you looking to find somewhere else... I would make that a priority ...
and move ....I woudlnt say that to her though just nod and say you are not moving stuff /puttting stuff in storage you will be reasonable clean thats it......as you may want to keep teh relationship ok until you actually move...then just give notice

DocusDiplo · 22/10/2019 08:34

I want to see your flat haha to see if mine is messier than yours :)

Original poster
Summerbreezes · 22/10/2019 08:41

We actually know people who have far more stuff than us.

OP posts:
MoltonSilver · 22/10/2019 08:43

So far the landlord, agent and a potential buyer all have unreasonable standards.

There might be two sides to this story.

Owlsintowels · 22/10/2019 08:47

We rented to friends and then tried to sell in the final 6 months of their tenancy. This was all up front and they knew our plan before they signed up to it. Even then I was aware they could change their minds at any point and refuse viewings.

Very very similar story to OP, nice flat which 'sold' easily in the pre brexit market three times. Immense bad luck meant those three all fell through, so we had to keep to for another couple of years, brexit vote happened, then we needed to sell again.

Reductions in price and still very few offers, though lots of viewings! Our tenants tidied before each one, even though we told them not to make a big effort.
However the key here is we bought them a takeaway to say thank you quite often, and sent bunches of flowers occasionally too. Oh and paid for extra cleaning. We realised how lucky we were they were willing to accommodate the viewings and wanted to keep them on side, so we made the whole experience as lovely as possible for them nominates self for best landlord award