Sainsburys going bag free

[Graphista]

Just received email from Sainsburys saying they're going bagless with deliveries.

I GET that this is supposed to be a "good thing" for the environment (though quite honestly I notice they're doing fuck all about individual packaging which I suspect would make a bigger difference!) BUT for me this HUGELY problematic.

I have OCD and so for me my groceries being in bags just feels a lot more hygienic. Than scrabbling about loose in crates that from what I can see are rarely cleaned!

In addition I live in the west of Scotland - it rains here pretty much most of the time! Already when it's wet weather the grocery bags are sometimes soaked but at least the individual products are dry!

I'm also physically disabled which means I already have to take 2-3 hours to "prep" to receive delivery of groceries (stretching exercises, bath, time for painkillers to kick in).

And there's more...

My flat is TINY the kitchen particularly so! It's a HALF galley so only one person can fit in there at a time (and even that's at a push! Dd and I have had to learn how to move in this kitchen so we don't constantly bump ourselves on cupboard edges etc).

With my disability I can just about manage carrying 2 carrier bags into kitchen at a time and placing on the floor when delivery comes. Drivers already get impatient with me!

I have sod all counter space (0.75m X 0.75m) to place items on, a few are normally placed on the cooker too but because of the hob shape only certain items fit. The ocd means I cannot put stuff on the floor absolutely NO WAY I could do that!

Fridge stuff takes careful management as small fridge and to fit everything in on fridge day is like setting up a Jenga game without a box!

IF I were to insist driver simply had to wait while I put everything away properly, well that normally takes me 60/90 mins!!

I have NOWHERE I can store crates (even collapsed) or bags for life

What the hell am I supposed to do?!

This is causing me GREAT anxiety so PLEASE be mindful of that in replies I would appreciate that.

Command strip hook on the wall and canvas bags that you can wash between each delivery at 60/90 and then they are clean for you to hang up in your clean space?
I’m also concerned about the risk that my shopping touching those baskets is without a barrier, but have to get my shopping delivered also. But I am in the position I have enough work space that the delivery guys can unload onto the work surface for me.

You’re being ridiculous by saying you have nowhere at all in your flat to store three bags for life. That’s just a lie.

My sympathies, OP.

The issue of dirty crates is a tough one to solve.
And it is an issue, whether you have OCD or not.

I order online , but only heavy stuff and the like. I started ordering food stuff just recently, but I wouldn't be impressed at the food items directly coming out of a crate.

I think you have to explore alternatives with the supermarket. Hopefully, they will be helpful rather than losing a regular customer.

I know it’s not very environmentally friendly, but you can buy carrier bags from Amazon (recyclable). Decant into the bags at your front door and leave in hallway. Then carry through to kitchen after delivery man goes. You can then use the bags for bin liners etc and use clean ones the week after.

I'm disabled too - I have tesco who have gone bagless (they still send some things in bags) I either have the driver to bring the crates to the kitchen, time it for when children/ good friend are around or have my reusable bags waiting at the door (decant into these and then after tesco have gone I transfer bit by bit into kitchen) - I actually do the latter the most as long as I do the frozen bits first doesn't matter if it takes me several hours to do the rest.

AMAM8916 AND mooncupblues - I HAVE ALREADY explained that once they've been folded I COULDN'T use them again for "clean" items. It is NOT a "personal preference" or a "want" it is something I CANNOT do without it would cause me to spin into becoming MUCH more unwell than I already am. I'm already one step away from the proverbial padded cell! My dd needs me at home and even hcps don't want me going to hospital because they strongly believe I would feel actually TOO safe there and never leave! But thanks for the compassion and understanding - do PLEASE tell me where you got your MH qualifications that mean you are qualified to basically just tell me to "suck it up"?! AND call me a Fucking liar!! I WISH this were a lie my LIFE would be a damn sight easier if my broken brain didn't have me in a state of panic at just getting out of bed! But this IS my life!

2 calls to customer service got me precisely NOWHERE!

Found a number for head office myself and called and have just spoken to someone there and they are going to check some things and get back to me tomorrow.

YES I am panicking, that is the nature of anxiety and ocd. I cannot help that.

YES I am trying to think of solutions and reading all yours and carefully considering if they would work for me.

Currently all I can think to do is:

1 Stop shopping with them altogether and have dd do the grocery shop - problems with this relate to her own work hours and her own disability which means she cannot always manage this, especially heavy items. She also gets anxious if she cannot find the usual item we get and doesn't want to get the "wrong" thing. There's also no way she could do it in one weekly shop due to her own disability and the fact we're several floors up in a flat! It would mean 3 - 4 shops a week and a taxi back each time (at a cost of around £7 each time) because she cannot (again due to her disability) manage heavy bags on the bus. Not to mention the sheer level of organisation to ensure we have in what we need. It feels a VERY disorganised way to do it and would cause me a LOT of anxiety.

2 Keep shopping with them IF they make an exception to this RIDICULOUS rule that they've implemented WITHOUT considering in advance the implications for disabled and otherwise struggling customers.

3 Keep shopping with them but somehow source my own supply of carrier bags to use to manage the delivery (would Amazon do this maybe?) but then I've NO idea where I'd store these! And I'm still not completely comfortable with my shopping being loose in the crates! They rarely look anything close to clean and there's still the rain factor AND the time factor!

I move slowly as it is! Bending to sort out shopping in this way is going to be extremely difficult for me. My back, neck and shoulders are going to be fucked!!! It's WHY I take my time putting away after driver has left usually!

"I can't believe they'd just go bagless without considering peoples needs for bags."
There really seems to have been ZERO consideration for disabled customers - which with online delivery I'm sure is a significant number! Apparently there WAS a trial - I'd LOVE to know what the issues raised by the trial were and IF they related to customer disability which was simply ignored?

Even IF I didn't have the issues I do the delivery guy couldn't FIT in my kitchen - not WITH the shopping! Indeed most of the delivery guys alone wouldn't fit! They tend to be tall well built guys which given the nature of the job doesn't surprise me.

If even one of their crates were in my kitchen there'd literally be not enough floor space left to move around in! Certainly not without risking serious injury. I wouldn't even chance them not injuring themselves.

"I am sure they must have considered how they will accommodate people with additional needs" I've now spoken with FOUR people at Sainsburys - not one seemed to have the slightest inkling that this could even be a problem for people with disabilities, we seem to have not been considered at all. Even "just" conditions like arthritis where people may not be great at gripping individual items but can manage looping carrier bags over wrists and perhaps either using aids to grip (which they would have time to use after driver gone) or maybe even pace putting shopping away, so putting fridge and freezer stuff away immediately and then ambient items later - my mum has arthritis and this is how she manages putting away her shopping, she does it in stages.

"Click and collect? Asda do this and its free so you could use the money to pay for a taxi to go and get it" 3 problems with this.

1 I'm housebound with agoraphobia, I barely even leave my bedroom currently. Grocery delivery day ALREADY basically takes up about 5 hours between pre-delivery prep, receiving delivery (thankfully only 1 hour slots another reason I previously loved Sainsburys), putting everything away and then cleaning/rituals after I've done that - it's knackering!!

2 nearest Asda is 16 miles away, nearest one that does click and collect is 22 miles away. I dread to think how much a taxi back would even be!

3 dd works odd shifts and is disabled and needs recovery days herself and as previously stated couldn't manage all the shopping up to the flat in one go, not even on same day even. So she couldn't collect for me.

I'm even now googling & checking local Facebook to see if there's people that do this as a service, I'm getting hits telling people how to set up doing this as a job but nothing on people already doing it. Presumably because mostly people use online delivery without it being impractical for them!

"but if enough people expect delivery drivers to undertake free work they aren't getting paid for they will end up missing someone off their list as they'll run out of time on their shift.
They are supposed to be in and out, not helping people put away, or hanging around." Except Sainsburys OWN answer (though insufficient) to the issue is

This is copied from the email!

"Our drivers will be happy to carry your shopping into your kitchen if you wish, and it’s safe for them to do so.

Or, have your bags for life ready by your front door so either you or your driver can easily transfer your groceries."

So THEY are expecting the drivers to do additional work because of this policy - I wonder how the drivers feel about that? Are they going to be given more time between deliveries to accommodate this extra work? Extra pay? I very much doubt it!

See! - completely ill thought through!

"Is there someone you could ask to be with you when they deliver." No. Everyone I know works, has family and caring commitments of their own. It would be a nightmare to organise and I would feel horrifically guilty even asking.

I am happy and willing to pay for the service, for the bags, they're not even selling bags for life on the online service!

Webuilt and indeed everyone else bless you for trying to offer solutions but even folded that crate/trolley I have nowhere I could put it even when collapsed. I'm seriously struggling for space here.

"How about buying a wheelie shopping bag that the driver could offload all your groceries into straight from the van?" I'm 4 floors up!

"If your kitchen is as small as you describe you can't be doing a huge shop due to lack of storage."
I have enough storage in the fridge/freezer, cupboards and drawers when the shopping is away. But it takes time to put it away and I've had to learn in my time in this flat how best to put things away so as to make best use of the storage and also because items I use most frequently really need to be between shoulder and waist height. Dd is tall so can manage things up higher. We tend to keep the items we rarely use in the lower spaces.

There's really very little counter space, the main one I use for food prep (when I'm up to it!) is only 0.75 X 0.75m and actually there are often items on it as overflow from cupboards until we've used a few bits and freed up cupboard space. The other is 30cm "deep" (haha) and 75cm wide/long and JUST fits the toaster, kettle and tea caddies (and even then we have to be careful).

"I spoke to the Tesco delivery driver about the bagless deliveries being a pain. He said it wasn't very well thought out mainly due to customers shopping getting wet and thinks they will either go back to a bagged option or something else. But further changes are coming so he says." I totally expect they will realise it's a pita AND costing them money in terms of customers leaving and also in drivers needing to be at deliveries longer and either go back to plastic OR (hopefully) offer a more environmentally friendly BUT practical option like cellulose bags.

Hell, even if they used CLEAN crates with LIDS that'd be something! It rains all the fucking time here! That's the least they could do.

"and I understand that it is frustrating that the NHS doesn't support you in the way you feel would work for you." I'm basically getting NO support at all at the moment. Certainly I've never had consistent multi dept support!

"If you recycle and compost, and most Scottish counties now provide a small kitchen compost bin, nothing wet or otherwise icky should be in your waste bin. So technically, you really do not need to line your bin with a plastic bag. "I re-use it" isn't a particularly strong argument."

I recycle LOADS, way more than any of my neighbours! I lived in Europe for several years where they're very hot on being "green" and got very used to being able to recycle pretty much anything.

Here with this council we can only recycle paper, card, some metal, clear glass, and certain plastics.

We don't have composting here and I'm pretty good at keeping food waste to a minimum with careful shopping. But certainly the bathroom bin needs a liner in my opinion as most bathroom waste is wet and very icky, especially for sanitary products (and no reusables wouldn't work for either dd or I).

And I'm sorry but I'm not washing every single container wet food has come in before binning! I'm pretty sure the hot water and detergent needed to do that would far outweigh the impact of using a bin bag for many such items!

"If everything you're saying is true and accepting a delivery of shopping needs as much wrap around planning as you say then you need some help, a carer for example"

I don't disagree - I've been trying to get the support I need!

Would these be suitable?

100 Medium Candy Stripe Plastic Vest Carrier Bags (BUY ONE GET ONE FREE - 200 BAGS FOR THE PRICE OF 100) https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B006H40QA2/ref=cmswwrcppapiii_azLIDbHD2JDN7

So, have I got this right? Sainsburys will bring your stuff in crates and then they either carry the crates to your kitchen and wait whilst you unload them or they (or you) unpack it into carrier bags at the front door and you have to take it to the kitchen yourself?
If this is the case, I think I'd rather go to the shops myself. Our kitchen is up two flights of stairs and I don't want the delivery driver struggling up there with big crates and wet shoes. I also dont want him watching on whilst I unload everything, it would make me uncomfortable. I have a bad back and couldn't get down to the crates at the front door to decant stuff without suffering for it. I really may as well just do the shopping myself
Just imagine what my weekly trifle would look like after it had been moved from crate to carrier bag at speed and then carted upstairs

Put an ironing board up then get a piece of wood, or anything solid and make a 'bridge' to your counter top. On this bridge you can stack your delivery and put them away when you're up to it.

OP you don’t need to google this service precisely but just look for a general carer who can come in one hour a week to help you with this.

If you look on facebook local pages there will definitely be someone who could help you

Webuilt and indeed everyone else bless you for trying to offer solutions but even folded that crate/trolley I have nowhere I could put it even when collapsed. I'm seriously struggling for space here.”

My folding trolley folds to the size of about a ruler in width/length and about 5cm wide? I live in a small house with lots of DC (who have big feet and lots of shoes ) but can find space for this. I’ve had to work out a way to store a wheelchair and associated aids, this trolly is literally the size of a couple of magazines, really!

If you look at it this way, maybe - if your NHS trust could give you a box of meds to help your condition (about the same size) and it would make your life easier, you would find a way to keep it in your flat. This will make your life easier, it’s small and it will reduce you struggling.

Clearly you need some sort of solution, I think you’re just going to have to decide which is the best, even if you see them all as a bad lot!

I never mentioned folding them and I’m not saying a word about your mental health issues. I’m saying that unless you live in a caravan or a cupboard under the stairs yes you do have somewhere to store bags for life.

@keepondreaming yes possibly thank you

"So, have I got this right? Sainsburys will bring your stuff in crates and then they either carry the crates to your kitchen and wait whilst you unload them" from the conversations I've had today ONLY if you can do so within a reasonable time, which for those of us that are disabled could well not be possible.

"or they (or you) unpack it into carrier bags at the front door and you have to take it to the kitchen yourself?" Yes so they're effectively being handled/packed at least twice where previously it was once prior to being put away.

"Just imagine what my weekly trifle would look like after it had been moved from crate to carrier bag at speed and then carted upstairs" I know this is a "lighthearted" comment but I am worried about fragile items too - I already rarely get eggs in one piece if delivered!

"Put an ironing board up then get a piece of wood, or anything solid and make a 'bridge' to your counter top. On this bridge you can stack your delivery and put them away when you're up to it." 😂😂😂

Ok - I don't own an ironing board anyway as neither dd or I iron because of our disabilities. Even if I DID I'd MAYBE get 3/4 of it in kitchen and then I wouldn't be able to get in kitchen at all! The layout of the flat means couldn't do this at entrance to kitchen even as hall an awkward shape (sort of bends)

"ShirleyPhallus I genuinely don't even know how that works! How would I find a private carer of this type and how would I know they were trustworthy/reliable?

@webuilt - I am desperately trying to think of solutions. I may even need to move my bedroom around to try and make space for crate/trolley/unfolded bags. Not impossible but difficult, anxiety inducing, painful, exhausting and bloody inconvenient when a simple move to cellulose bags by Sainsburys would solve not only my problem but I really strongly suspect many others with different conditions for whom no bags is a problem.

We have been having bagless deliveries from Tesco for about 6 months now. It doesn't bother me but then I throw things on the floor and don't worry about it really. In fact since most things are packaged it seems fine to me but then I don't have OCD so I know it is easy for me to say. I am sorry you are having issues and I am not sure what to suggest as most things I could think of have already been suggested but I hope you find an acceptable solution.

www.amazon.co.uk/s?ref=nb_sb_ss_i_2_21&crid=11N7JMJOYUX99&sprefix=plastic+carrier+bags+%2Ckitchen%2C204&i=kitchen&k=plastic+carrier+bags+large&tag=mumsnetforu03-21

You could buy these and then reuse for your bin.

Sorry you have such a difficult time with your OCD, wouldn't wish it on anyone.

Ok, so obviously I'm an ignoramous. But isn't this situation like... letting your OCD "win" if you let it run your life like this? With any other illness we talk about fighting it, "beating cancer", "not going to stop me from living" etc.

With OCD it seems like the situation is "Well, the nature of my disease is that it has to control me; it says "Jump!" and I say 'How High?' "

What the hell am I supposed to do?!

Have you tried Ocado?

Rather than a carer try looking for someone who advertises as a personal assistant. My MIL has one and pays her £10 an hour and she helps with things such as this, and sometimes a bit of personal care if needed. If you find the right person they might be happy with an hour or two a week.

Message Sainsburys on social media, it seems like most companies only jump when they are shamed publicly.