I am not coping with my toddler

[AgentCooper]

DS is a few weeks away from turning two. He is very volatile.

He throws things constantly. Sometimes if i’ve put a plate of grapes out for him after he’s decided he’s finished he just picks it up and chucks it. He does this in his highchair at dinner too. I tell him that when he’s finished he just needs to say all done and that throwing things can hurt people but to no avail. A friend told him off at soft play recently because his water bottle narrowly missed her child’s head.

At other people’s houses, cafes, he sweeps everything off tables. At home I make sure there’s nothing in reach so he can’t do this and again tell him not to do it because it makes a mess and it’s not nice.

He bites and scratches me and DH when he doesn’t get what he wants, eg if I need to take him upstairs to get him into his pyjamas and he doesn’t want to go. Usually he will soften up with me because I repeat ‘gentle hands,’ ‘don’t hurt mummy’ and stay calm. With DH he just gets worse because he shouts and reacts really loudly.

He was told off in the supermarket recently because he kept knocking over the battery recycling box, no matter how many times I stopped him. I was trying to pay and pack my shopping, holding him by the arm but he got free and did it again.

This evening DH noticed a scratch on the tv screen and was furious as DS has obviously done it with a car. Whenever he runs his cars across the telly, I move him away, distract him, but it’s obviously happened when i’ve been in the kitchen. DH goes to his parents’ on Sundays so it definitely happened on my watch.

Everything i’ve read says time out/naughty step are no use for a child so young because he won’t understand and that explaining why what he’s doing is wrong, distracting, removing him from the situation, ‘Time In’ with lots of cuddles and attention are more effective. I do all this. And DH is saying we need to start disciplining him because my way obviously isn’t working.

He is the definition of a high needs child - really sensitive, clingy, emotional, high energy, takes ages to get used to people, still not sleeping through. But i’m starting to wonder if there are actual additional needs there. What do I do? I’m just exhausted and miserable. Who do I talk to?

You need to put him in a trolley in the supermarket.

In other people's homes he needs to go straight into the buggy if he starts destroying the place. Stop going to restaurants and cafes until this phase ends.

You can use the buggy for restraint at home too. He could be buckled in right beside you in whatever room you're in so the separation aspect of a timeout wouldn't be a factor.

Get gates for doorways so he can't escape to another room at home and you can supervise him at all times.

Get him out daily to have lots of exercise and lots of sensory experiences. He can throw stuff to his little heart's content outdoors.

A predictable routine often helps calm a child who is always up to ninety too.

Don't worry you don't sound dismissive at all!

He was in the bath tonight, was stroking my face and smiling and saying ‘oh wee mummy.’ This sounds so lovely!

Your little one is really so very very young. My DS was practically non verbal at this age too. He has turned out very able as well, I think I worried that he would struggle academically because his language was delayed but he hasn't at all. You might well find that other people's children start to develop more challenging personalities in the next few months. They are not called the terrible twos for nothing. Then you won't feel so judged maybe?

And your H needs to stop making such a drama out of scratches, etc. He is frightening DS.

A child of two cannot conceive of another person's physical pain or emotions. When your H shouts or indicates DS has hurt him your son genuinely cannot understand what has happened to make daddy shout.

To him, daddy is an unpredictable person who is bigger and stronger than him. He protects himself by becoming physical and engaging in displays of physical force.

Your H sounds like someone disengaged from family life and actually quite angry.

I do think your DH sounds as if he has completely unrealisitic expectations of a just turned two year old child.

" just struggling a wee bit for any of the actions to have much effect on DS’s behaviour"

I felt like that at first. I was frustrated because I had lots of light bulb moments when I read the book and then put lots of effort into following the advice - but it didn't seem to be making any difference! However, suddenly it did. I think it takes a while to sink in (for both parent and child) but then it does really help. I was particularly pleased because after I started talking about emotions, DS started doing it pretty quickly, and I was so proud when he said one day "I'm frustrated"! (He can't actually say the word very well but I got the gist )

It feels like a lot of effort for little reward at first but it's worth it, honest.

I also feel that DS developed SO much in the 6 months after his second birthday - he is communicating brilliantly now and that helps massively.

Also agree with the PP about routine. We don't mess around too much with DS's nap or with his bedtime routine. It also helps to explain what we're going to do next, what we're doing today etc.

@Agentcooper your Op really resonated with me today as I have had a tough day today with my 21month old son, also going through a hitting stage!

I agree with PPs that a lot of what you describe does sound like normal toddler boy behaviour (albeit of the extreme/high needs variety!) and so doesn't necessarily sound like SEN.
Definitely don't claim to be any kind of expert but things that help for me with my little one...

When he first started throwing stuff he picked up a large wooden noahs ark and aimed it at me, so we spent a lot of time showing him it was okay to throw balls, and soft toys and pillows when he was frustrated.
He loves to throw balls, so we only allow a certain few inside the house, but take him out to the park round the corner as much as possible to throw and kick all he likes.

When he is hitting me, I say no once firmly, and then leave. Just to the next sofa sometimes, or into the kitchen and occasionally shut the door if he follows, still hitting. (can see him through glass) He screams and gets upset, I leave it a couple of minutes and then go and offer him a cuddle. At the moment I sometimes have to do this 5 times a day, particularly when he's knackered, but it does stop the hitting fairly quick.

My DS has quite a few words, but he also has lots of signs which he uses which have really helped with his frustration when the verbal language isn't there yet. We offer choices as much as possible between mummy and daddy doing things, which can help when he doesn't want his nappy changed or to hold hands when walking etc.as he feels more in control.

Quite a generalisation here but I do find from friends with girls of a similar age, that boys are more active and need a bit more wearing out. Mine isn't likely to sit still for very long, unless there's food involved and often not even then, so I don't try to make him. I go to cafes with colouring, let him down from the table if it's safe to, and meet at friends houses/parks where he doesn't really need to stay in one place.

If you think language is delayed, talk to the HV. Quite often a parent is in despair but if turns out the child is well within the bounds of normal.

If you want to, you could focus on language for a while. Talk about everything you're doing, repeating words like pouring, mixing, reaching, washing, etc - 'I'm pour, pour, pouring the milk', 'Im shut, shut, shutting the fridge'.

Incorporate singing into daily life. Find and read rhyming books - not just nursery rhymes but books in verse. Toddlers soak up the rhythm and vocab of verse, and it can also relax them if they are 'having a moment'.

@mathanxiety I totally agree about DH. I keep telling him DS just gets wilder/scratchier the bigger his reactions are. Wrt to things getting broken in the house, DH relies a lot on order to feel calm. His own childhood was shit - his dad drank and hit his mum, his mum repeatedly got into mountains of debt so they were always flitting from mortgage arrears. He was never taken to the dentist after the dentist stopped visiting primary school. Anyone would think he would want nothing to do with his parents but he really feels obligated to see them. He’s seeing a psychologist to talk about his childhood and I hope that can help him let go of this need for everything to be perfect because DS does not fit into that equation.

Re: DS’s language, I don’t think it’s delayed. He has a huge vocabulary for his age (wee bugger has been able to count to 20 since about 21 months).

With regard to putting DS in the buggy for restraint at cafes/other people’s houses - what would you do if he was just to scream non-stop? Would you just up and leave in that case?

@platform9andthreequarters those are some good ideas! I like the idea of just disengaging briefly when he’s being violent. And offering choices re: nappy changes sounds good - will need to get DH to change a few more nappies in that case

@AnotherEmma that’s very comforting to know that the techniques from the book do sink in with time and use! The old ‘gentle hands’ didn’t work instantly but it does help now.

I have to say contrary to all the advice time out actually worked quite well for my son at that age. We didn't call it the naughty step, I don't like that term, but it was just somewhere to go to calm down.

I think two is a difficult age as they're so much bigger it's difficult to still think of them as a baby but really they pretty much still are. I think it's only recently, at 3.5, that my DS has really started to understand the concept of misbehaving. Now I can say things like "if you carry on doing X we won't do Y" and he understands it, but that wouldn't have worked age 2. At that age two things worked: time out and distraction.

I also think ignoring when hitting works quite well, or it did for mine.

I very much disagree that it's 'a boy thing' - I have 2 girls and they have both had phases of being like this. I found 'toddlercalm' very useful. The major take home from that is that if it's stressful, don't do it. This goes for supermarkets, playdates etc.

Is he in childcare for the days you work? What do they think?

In practice this means parenting toddlers can be quite boring--I found it hard to switch from the hanging out with tea and cake baby days to endless park visits and soft play, but it is much less stressful.

And yes to the getting up and leaving--I didn't do this as much as I should have with DD1 but did it with DD2 and in fact still do it with them both. They were both awful screamers and naughty step didn't work either, bad sleepers, classic 'high needs'. 'Time in' did but again, that's at the expense of your own sanity. I was always very jealous of people with compliant kids.

DD1 is six now and actually quite nice so it's likely he will get there!

I was thinking about this the other day, re my 20 month old who is a fairly typical toddler I think but there is some stuff he does that I wonder whether we’re handling correctly. Throwing things definitely one of the behaviours that press my buttons!

I think that your partner has unreasonable expectations of behaviour and if he was up for reading ‘how to talk’ it would be really helpful, even if the first chapter. My partner did and found it useful.

At the moment I am using the ‘say what you see’ and physical removal from situation most. I will also say simple commands like ‘no throwing’ which is followed up by ‘you seem frustrated, shall we try alternative activity.’ He usually continues which results in ‘I can’t let you continue throwing, come on’ and I pick him up and move him. At the moment I feel completely ineffectual :D but I’m pretty sure that it’s worth keeping persevering. I will own moments of jealously re other toddlers who actually stop when their parents say stop, but I comfort myself that some kids are more compliant than others.

I set us up to succeed too. He’s not going to sit quietly and play, so I make accommodation for that. If it’s a circle activity, I am going to spend the entire time sprinting after him and retrieving him! I don’t even consider taking him into the supermarket without being in a buggy (the idea gives me the heeby jeebies!). We practice walking in the low stakes roads and pavements near our house but if we’re anywhere busy on foot he’s definitely in his little reins (you can get quite cute little sets with animals on the front). We go to the park a lot as he loves a good free meander.

He’s worked out how to slip the straps on his car seat, and I am going to get a be safe strap keeper . I was reading an old thread about it and properly smirked when I read someone saying it was a discipline issue, and all parent needed to do would be to yell at child and stop every time he slipped the straps. HAH. Not with my child, and not with the parent I am. I think this is a good example of my parenting style. I will lay guidelines re behaviour, but I’m not going to get into a battle of wills and I know my kid. Yelling is not the answer plus I could waste a lot of energy trying to get him to do what I say because he respect my authoriteh. I’m the adult and I’m in charge, but I also think little kids deserve autonomy too.

Sounds very similar to how my boy was at nearly 2. It was a nightmare. If he decided he'd finished his meal, he'd frisbee the plate. He was always on reins because there was no way I'd have been able to go anywhere or do anything without. He was pushy/shovey with other kids. He would fight me on everything. It was utterly exhausting, I remember googling "is my toddler a psychopath" because he'd kick out at the dog and have no conscience whatsoever. I wouldn't go to toddler groups because I had to be on him constantly lest he walloped another child and I looked like the most helicoptering patent ever.

He's nearly three and completely different now. I started the naughty step at about 2. Two minutes and took him back as many times as it took for it to sink in. Kind hands, gentle hands on repeat. Your dh thought L, he needs to engage with you and his child. Sodding off for the day is unacceptable.

Agree with PP, he can internet shop for them and have it delivered. Or he goes out at 7 and gets back at 10 so you've got some of the day together. He needs to stop shouting, it won't make a difference to your son because he either doesn't give a shit, because toddler or except for perhaps scaring him, the laughing may be a fear response .

Ah, your DH's childhood explains why he is at his parents' beck and call every Sunday. Childhood conditioning runs deep and he's clearly not felt able to break free of it. I really hope the therapy helps him. I strongly recommend the book "Toxic Parents" by Susan Forward if he hasn't read it yet.

What's your relationship with your in-laws like?

To go back to the main subject... I can't explain this very well but I really can't stand the expression "gentle hands" (or "kind hands" or whatever), it just sets my teeth on edge I do of course tell my DS to be gentle and talk about being kind.

I think it's something to do with being surrounded by sickly sweet mild mannered parents at baby/toddler groups when I was chronically sleep deprived and mostly bored out of my mind, I really needed one or two mum friends to get blunt and sweary with!

My ds is now 2.5 and i had exactly the same problem when he was about 18mnths and have only recently got on top of it. I had to remove all breakables in living room and ended up putting a lock on kitchen door as he would climb onto work tops so i decided it was safer to just restrict ds from some rooms. You are doing everything right.."nice hands" and lots of praise when this behaviour is absent is the way to go. I concentrated on finger foods for a while..(got sick of clearing up-turned plates of mash from floor). Also, when in throwing mood takes hold have a ball handy, i found that scolding for throwing was getting me nowhere so i a ball an let ds throw till heart content. I takes a lot of patience but you will get there. My ds very rarely throws now and can even sit with a grown up plate😉

With regard to putting DS in the buggy for restraint at cafes/other people’s houses - what would you do if he was just to scream non-stop? Would you just up and leave in that case?

Yes, quite honestly. And I have done this with my DC4. Try not to be angry or flustered if this happens. Give a heads up to DS that you will leave if the screeching continues and ask him if he is able to relax and breathe. Soothe him with 'gentle hands', ask him if he would like to sit on your lap for a while. If there is no end in sight, just leave, calmly. Your friends will probably understand.

I would also do a pep talk about hoped-for behaviour before you enter the destination (cafe, house, supermarket) and smile encouragingly and give some praise when things are going well. I would frame the buggy experience as 'needing a little breather here beside mummy' as opposed to a 'time out'.

With DC4 I realised I had to time outings carefully - we only ventured forth when naptime was a little way off, and after eating. Essentially we only went out anywhere in mid morning after the mid morning snack, and only spent at most 1.5 hours out, from leaving to getting back home, including driving time.

Make sure you are giving lots of attention to DS's cues that he is losing the plot. Most toddlers have a 'tell'.

Try keeping a diary for about a week to see if there are any particular times or conditions when DS is more or less prone to destructive jags or out of control episodes. Write down time slept, any suspicions about teething, nap duration, all foods and drinks consumed and time or drinking/eating.

Your DH is sadly a typical child of alcoholic parents. He is still trying to get them to love him.
adultchildren.org/literature/laundry-list/

Would he consider Al Anon for families?
www.al-anonuk.org.uk/
Try your utmost to talk him into getting help sorting out his family of origin issues. His issues will eventually affect your relationship, no ifs or buts. This kind of thing is too big and too all-encompassing to ignore.

In his need for order he is foisting a role onto DS that DS didn't ask for and that he is not capable of filling. DH simply must stop this. Would it provoke a lot of hurt or anger if you were to point out that he is doing to DS what his parents very likely did to him?

At the moment he is frightening DS. This must stop. DS needs to have complete confidence that no matter what he throws (literally) at his daddy, daddy can handle it, because daddy functions at the level of a grown up, not a child under age 5. He is taking DS's contrariness as a personal criticism or rejection and he needs to step wayyyy back from that. Parents and caregivers shouldn't ever take the attitude of babies, toddlers and young children personally.

Sounds very similar to how my boy was at nearly 2. It was a nightmare. If he decided he'd finished his meal, he'd frisbee the plate. He was always on reins because there was no way I'd have been able to go anywhere or do anything without. He was pushy/shovey with other kids. He would fight me on everything. It was utterly exhausting, I remember googling "is my toddler a psychopath" because he'd kick out at the dog and have no conscience whatsoever. I wouldn't go to toddler groups because I had to be on him constantly lest he walloped another child and I looked like the most helicoptering patent ever

@DadCanIHaveAZedgie you are describing my life right there. I’m so glad things have improved for you!

AnotherEmma I know what you mean about ‘gentle hands’ it’s a lame ass phrase. Definitely get where you’re coming from re: mild mannered parents, I couldn’t stand all the starry eyed #lovingmatleave stuff. My friend and I had a rule that we could moan as much as we wanted as long as we never said ‘but it’s so worth it, isn’t it?’

irene1975 grown up plates??! That’s the dream. I am in awe

math thanks for such a thoughtful, considered post. DH tends to tie his dad’s drinking in as just one part of a horrible childhood as his dad doesn’t drink anymore but you are right that he’s so desperate for his love. He didn’t see his parents regularly for ages but when his mum got into yet another 30 grand worth of debt DH stepped in to get a repayment plan set up, gave them money and made sure they didn’t lose the house (about 5 years ago). I think he finally felt that his dad valued and respected him. The first thing FIL said to me when we met was to ask if DH was working hard and had a good job now because he didn’t before. We don’t take DS down to their house because they both smoke like chimneys inside. You are so, so right - if DH isn’t careful he’s going to end up mirroring how his dad was/is with him.

WRT to DS, I think I need to find a consequence that isn’t going home because half the time that’s what he wants. We get to a friend’s house or soft play and he’s pulling at me and shouting back to house! Or in fact I need to compromise more and see that it’s me who wants to get out and about and DS is happier at home with his cars. I don’t want him doing that all the time though so need to find a way to meet in the middle.

Honestly, it does improve Op they've got all the mobility of an older child but very little of the language or emotional capability. Being consistent about the consequences combined with him understanding consequences has made a huge difference. And he can tell me if he's unhappy, bored, tired, hungry etc now.

But when you've got a heavy, flaily, wailing toddler throwing themselves about and pulling on your clothes and scratching it definitely feels endless. I still have to run DS daily like you would a puppy most days. We go geocashing or for a walk or whatever, to the park, outside spaces. Take a biscuit and a drink and have an hour out. Get a frog suit and some wellies and even when it's freezing or chucking it down we'll meander to the shop or whatever. I used to joke that it was like having a knee high hurricane made of bricks on a lead, it's much more pleasant now, usually...he can still be a whiny, arsey little toerag

I found it really hard because my friends close by had these lovely little girls who would sit and play, enter DS, dive bomb pile on and carnage, I spent a lot of time with my face like this 😬 and thinking that I was a dreadful parent and I should be having him at classes and giving him learning experiences when really he was happier just messing and being destructive with a spade in the garden.

DH is very much of the mindset that we shouldn’t have to change things around the house so DS won’t break them but I think he’s learning that maybe damage control is the way to go right now

Theres loads of parents like that. They'd rather put the time in early so they can take their kid anywhere. Thing is it's you doing it not him full time so he doesn't get his way all the time.

I think all toddlers are like Attila the Hun. Mine sounds similar to yours but has ASD. It was literally damage control for quite a few years, fire guard in front of the TV even if it did block the bottom off. Buggy when out, let him scream, didn't go out to eat or friends houses. Better to have them come to me and yes, blind tied up out of the way.

It passed. It took a few year but it did end.

I found 18-2 the worst time. DS is a throwing everything, hair pulling toddler. I was a literal helicopter, I had to be right next to him at all times as we would just lunge for other toddlers. He constantly made others cry, I was always apologising and shed a few tears myself.

He's now only 2.2 and the last couple of months he has gotten so much better. I can actually sit and have conversations at toddler groups and drink tea when I go on play dates. I still have to intervene more than others but it's not constant

I used a mix of sharp no's removing him from the situation. Removing myself if he pulled my hair or bit. Doing gentle hands, explaining feelings.

It will get better

I remember googling "is my toddler a psychopath

Oh hey, me too! Much better since he was able to express himself. He’s 2.5 now.

He still has occasional shit fits (last week we had to leave swimming class, which he usually loves, because he screamed for 20mins solid when I wouldn’t let him get in the pool down the stepladder). But far less frequent, and he is yelling rather than hitting now.

Another book I can recommend for you and DH is the Philippa Perry 'book you wish your parents had read'. It's particularly good at helping you understand why certain behaviours enrage you disproportionately. She has some good advice on starting by doing a really intense 15 minutes play as well, after which they are much better at independent play, not being destructive etc.

"My friend and I had a rule that we could moan as much as we wanted as long as we never said ‘but it’s so worth it, isn’t it?’"

Lol! Sounds like a good friend

I developed a short sharp 'no' as a warning about behaviour I didn't like. At that age they don't really have time/capacity to understand explanations. They don't have the foresight to be able to think 'If I play with my cars on the tv it might scratch it and I will be in trouble.' It is expecting too much which is why you have to baby proof your house and remove things that you don't want spoilt.

Also praise every inch of good behaviour when they are having a difficult day. It is easy for us to ignore children when they are behaving well and only really pay attention when they are being difficult. So they'll take the negative attention because it is still some form of attention. But if you over praise the good behaviour then more should follow. So 'ooh aren't you sitting nicely eating your lunch. What a good boy. Isn't it nice when we sit together and eat like this. I do like it' and so on.
And remind them about your expectations beforehand. 'We're going to eat our lunch today and look after the plate because mummy doesn't like having to pick it up'
In the supermarket give him something to hold for you and praise him for being a big helper. Also get him to look for things as you go around the shop 'we need to find the bananas now. Can you see them'

He will grow out of it this is just a tricky age.