Can I ask for a hand-hold ahead of an intervention this afternoon?

[SachaStark]

Or maybe even some practical advice from those who’ve been there?

We have to have an intervention for my brother today. He’s been very ill with depression and BPD all this year. He’s stopped work, but is going out and we think taking drugs all the time. He’s gotten into a lot of debt, which we’ve just discovered this week.

I had to hold my mother together whilst she screamed and cried on the floor of my house this morning.

My extended family members are being very helpful. We are all meeting him at one person’s house this afternoon, and my cousin is bringing him there. He will have to move in with me and DH, as he can’t afford to pay rent anymore. We have to get him to tell us everything about the money so that we can put a plan in place. We are all so, so willing to help him, but we need to know the extent of the problems first.

Please can somebody reassure me that it gets better from here? Is there anything else I need to do?

@Spankyoumuchly Thanks for explaining your thought process it makes much more sense like that and I do actually agree with you. As a person with BPD having seen the vitriol that the diagnosis gets on here I tend to be a little sensitive so I do apologise for that.

I agree with ColdAndSad and all the others who are saying don’t take him into your home.
I’ve been there, done that.
If he 100% wants help he will get in touch with MH professionals who will help him.
What others say about reaching rock bottom is correct. You will be enabling him to not reach it.
It’s hard, very, very hard. Every family seems to have to go through the same process before they realise that their help and support is not achieving anything.
Please listen to others who have been in simply situations.

Your mother lying on the floor hysterical?

This caught my attention.

This doesn’t sound like someone you want even close to an intervention in the manner you describe. I suspect she will make it all about her

I think you're out of your mind to have him stay with you.

@SpankYouMuchly
I disagree. I have autism, I was born with it.
I also have bpd, which is the illness I developed due to developmental trauma.
Trust me as someone who actually has both i know the difference.
I am autistic whereas I have bpd.

What changes has he himself made to improve his situation.

I also don’t think you should have him living with you, admirable and loving as it seems. If he he has a history of mental health issues and drug use he really needs to be treated and helped by mental health team. By all means support him and spend time with him but be careful of having him live with you. It sounds good in theory but you may inadvertently be enabling his drug habit as well as hindering his recovery.

He is not working, in a lot of debt and you think he may be taking drugs. How is he paying for said drugs if not working? Even if only when out with his friends, drugs are not cheap or free, so he must be getting the money from somewhere.

Calm down people. All the OP knows is that he's depressed, in debt, can't afford his rent, needs a roof over his head and MAY take recreational drugs on nights out.
I think a routine of breakfast, lunch, dinner, bedtime snack, regular bed-time and getting-up time might help his depression. Also, having people around him might help.
I would how make a rule that he can't have friends over. He can have as many as he likes when he can afford his own place again.
He might just need a look at his debt, consolidating them, moving them to lower interest rates or something and to be given a schedule of what to pay/when to pay it.
PS. If he's this bad, he should be in receipt of PIP.
Debt is one sure fire way to depress you.

Please clarify whether you mean bipolar or EUPD/BPD.

‘He will have to move in with me and DH, as he can’t afford to pay rent anymore’

Whoa!
Hell’s Teeth NO!

No ‘have to’ about it.
Why bring his immediate health & other unknown problems into your life, marriage & home?

If you want to help him as a family, then make arrangements to have his rent paid directly to his landlord to keep a roof over his head.

Should his problems escalate & the landlord gives notice making him homeless, then the local authority has a statutory duty to help him - how extensive that help will be, who knows?

If you have him living with you, you can forget any external help or funding with housing him in the future. Your taking him in changes the rules of the game.

Of course you care about him, but you must maintain your personal boundaries.

I don't have any great experience here, but i don't really get this. An intervention sounds unusual for mental health issues. You seem to have little reason to think there is a drugs issue. I would worry this will not be at all helpful. Why does it need to be such a dramatic approach?

He sounds like he is doing the right things in terms of his mental health - engaged with gp and getting therapy.

(Your mother should definitely not be part of whatever the plan is!)

Your brother has run up debt but he is an adult. You need to decide what level of support you can and want to offer should he wish to take it up. I'm not sure about forcing the help on him.

The only reason I ask is that people need to be ready to make changes themselves, BPD is generally about supporting people to regulate their emotions, develop new coping skills, interpersonal relationships work on past trauma and all this takes time but with the right support and a willingness to change it can work very well x

lunaland, thank you for explaining your diagnosis. My dcs psychiatrist was explaining the autism can be caused by environmental issues as well as genetic. Although I think there's autism in my family I think I have it because my mother is abusive and neglected me. Doing further reading, I found there is evidence that abuse suffered as a baby/ young child can actually influence the structure of the brain as that is the time neural pathways are developed. I wonder if this is the case for personality disorders too. I hope I haven't offended you. I'm sorry if I have. I hope you don't mind me asking how it is different? I wonder if it's how I feel about my depression and anxiety being separate to me, even though I'm experiencing them. I'm a very black and white thinker, so I would appreciate your help. This is one of my special interests so I realise I can appear pushy.
RealersHowler, I agree with you that it does really get negative responses. Having a neurodiverse brain myself I'm not one to judge. Thank you for your kind response. I'm really stressed at the moment.

@SpankYouMuchly
Oh I'm not at all offended. It's an area which I am very interested in too.
I've spent the last year or so with a psychologist trying to untangle my mental health to work out why i just can't seem to do life! I've also done extensive reading on it too.
Autism is always something you are born with, it can't be developed in later life as it is a neurological disorder. Bpd is not something you are born with and is developed usually as a result of some trauma. It's not a neurological disorder, it's the brain trying to process and cope with trauma
So for example, I find eye contact very very uncomfortable, often painful, this is not as a result of any previous event in my life, it's always been like that- so this my autism.
I also have a severe anxiety around being abandoned, this however is a learnt response and so a result of bpd.
Certainly some people are more prone to develop bpd than others.
If I only had bpd then I would be neurotypical.
I hope that makes sense! It is quite a complicated subject!

Op I'm sorry for going away from the threads subject. I think it's wonderful of you to try and help your brother, but please be careful

It always baffles how Mumsnet is so against helping people in this way. He's family. Of course, you do everything you can do.

The problem with addiction @UnicornCat is that it's a fine line between support and enablement,and unfortunately when you are as close as families tend to be that line is crossed far too often.

OP - you sound like you have a clear ide of how to deal with it, however, I'd question your capability to do this alongside managing your mum who 'was screaming and crying' and your dad who refuses to acknowledge MH issues exist. This might not be the best environment for your brother.

Also - I'm assuming addiction issues based on the drug chat and debt, could also be gambling, or just general poor money management.

I'm very concerned, Spank, that a psychiatrist has told you he knows what causes autism when we don't actually truly know what it is, much less a definitive cause for it but all the research so far evidences that people are born with it.

I think @SpankYouMuchly that what you are referring to regarding brain development is what may go on to be a personality disorder

autism is NOT caused by bad parenting, but things like attachment disorder / oppositional defiance are,

autism is present at birth. By environmental they dont mean after birth, they mean during foetal development in utero. But as timshelterchoice says, they are unsure

the 'refirgerator mum' syndrome has been completely debunked

however autism and these kinds of developmental responses to trauma can look very very similar and it is only with thorough investigation / case history and assesment that the differences can be identified in some cases, especially with children

In addition a child who has autism and is struggling can be traumatised by not having the correct support/interventions so there is a definate crossover where the two can be quite intrinsicly intertwined

the developmental / personality issues CAN be treated and helped with support and therapy, but its hard work and the person involved really needs to recognise and engage with their therapy - the brain has a plasticity which means that old pathways CAN be rewired into healthier responses. It may be a generalisation, but women and kids on the whole seem to be more willing to engage in this kind of deep therapy than men.

But autism will always be there. It is not a learnt behaviour, so the fundamental differences in wiring remain the same. Which is not to say that the person with it cannot learn how to best survive in a NT world, and those around them cant learn how best to interact with them.

Myself, my partner, my kids and many in both our extended family are a melting pot of autism and PDs

In regard the OPs question the 'addiction' is just supposition. there may just be some small amount of recreational use. There may be a case that the OPs brother is using the drugs because they help him calm down / feel when in a swing of mania/depression. And there is a whole heap of difference between cannabis and cocaine.
the main issue is the MH and the fact that its not being treated, and there is the assumption that in this dysfunctional set up we have a mother who is hysterical and making it about them, a father who is distant and in denial, and the OP who is set up as the problem solver for the parents.
This is a really dangerous and unhealthy dynamic for both the children involved, even if OP really thinks its the best option.
If OPs brother is going off the rails because of MH issues then enabling him to carry on is not going to help. Brother may initially jump at the prospect as it gives him a chance to absolve himself of responsibility for the mess and he sees it as an easy option, but the constant survelillance thats been suggested will feel oppressive to him. If his issues are personality disordered from his parents, then OP will just end up taking the role of the parent and the frustrations the brother has will be taken out on her - attempting to infantise him is not going to help him. He is a man and once he finds his feet he is most likely to kick back at the strict rules.
He needs professional help.

Hope the intervention went okay. I would be wary of anyone diagnosing him here... Just saying. Xx I am a clinical professional and work in MH...you can't assess and diagnosis off a Mumsnet post... If he's willing I would support him to see his GP for his clinical needs, support from family is crucial in people's recovery if they are willing to make the changes xx

@Gempeatea - the OP hasn't even clarified whether his diagnosis is Borderline or Bipolar. Nobody here is diagnosing him. However, every poster here is saying he's an addict, based on an inkling the OP has that he may use recreational drugs.