Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Chat

Join the discussion and chat with other Mumsnetters about everyday life, relationships and parenting.

Not gaslighting but similar - what's the word?

31 replies

PlsTryAnother · 31/07/2019 13:33

Don't even know if there is a word for this. Person A let's down Person B constantly. The reasons are always valid on the surface ie illness, bad back, unexpected bill, overtime, but they don't tell B until the last minute to cause maximum disruption and are things that can't be proved and make B look unreasonable to doubt or reject them.

I know this is similar to gaslighting but is there a more specific term? Even as I'm writing this it seems like I'm over reacting!

Sorry for the garble - heads fucked

OP posts:
justilou1 · 31/07/2019 13:34

That’s sabotage?

SpoonBlender · 31/07/2019 13:35

Being a dick?

CherithPonsonby · 31/07/2019 13:37

Torch-lighting with nearly-flat battery.

I feel your pain. They’re being a dick.

LonginesPrime · 31/07/2019 13:39

unexpected bill

Disorganisation and/or fuckwittery. Either they've committed financially to something or they haven't (in which case they shouldn't be paying the bill).

overtime

Usually this is voluntary and the person will know they have volunteered for it, so again, either this is disorganisation or a lack of respect for you and the plans they've already made with you.

PlsTryAnother · 31/07/2019 13:46

Got previous for gaslighting but it's not so easy to control me since we split up. Using dc to cause maximum head fuckery now. I'm just so tired of it all. It was just bugging me that I couldn't think of the word - guess there isn't one then! Wink

OP posts:
tryinganotherusername · 31/07/2019 13:48

That behaviour could be passive eg. down to a lack of consideration or care for the other person, or it could be more active - it can be hard to know the true intentions of another. I think sometimes issues such as anxiety or low self esteem can also cause people to be a bit flakey and prioritise the wrong stuff.
The only thing we have control over is whether or not we accept the flakey behaviour. It can be hard to make the decision not to accept it when on the surface the excuses are not unreasonable. But if there's a continuing pattern I'd say something isn't right....

DandyLyon · 31/07/2019 13:50

It's controlling behaviour, power games

LonginesPrime · 31/07/2019 14:09

In your OP, you say 'Person A let's down Person B constantly'. If this is about them letting your DC down when they're supposed to be having them, I'd suggest assuming you'll be let down and not making plans when they're supposed to be having the DC.

I've been in that situation (so might be projecting and this might be something totally different), and if they're doing it to annoy you and get the attention they would previously have had, they will eventually get tired of it if they see it's not impacting you. Plus, I've found that as the DC grow older, my person B has started to realise it's the DC who are let down (not that this stops him flaking).

Also, if it's for child maintenance, go through the CMS and formalise the arrangement.

LonginesPrime · 31/07/2019 14:10

Sorry - 'my person A'

PlsTryAnother · 31/07/2019 15:02

@LonginesPrime Thats exactly it. I tend not to make plans for that reason but it still messes up things like food plans. And it's knowing it's being done for that reason that's hard to take. Just needed a rant really.

OP posts:
Pinkbonbon · 01/08/2019 11:13

Here's the thing - normal people don't gaslight, disordered people do. Don't separate it into different bad behaviours from an otherwise normal person, because it isn't the case.

More than likely he has a cluster b personality of some sort. Such as a narcissist.

Control, manipulation, mind games and gas lighting - all the domain of a narcissist.

Thatagain · 01/08/2019 11:53

Yes definitely narcissistic traits. They are not emphatic so won't get what you are saying. Very sorry you are going through this.

PlsTryAnother · 01/08/2019 15:37

Yep, definitely a narc. Its tough, though, isn't it to not try to "understand" it? I spent a lot of years excusing and minimising his behaviour so its natural for me to do that.

They are not emphatic so won't get what you are saying This is what I still need to learn and accept.

OP posts:
BarryMcguigan · 01/08/2019 15:43

It could be a sign of anxiety or depression. When I have suffered in the past I have willed myself and told myself to commit to a plan but in the last few moments to leave the door I have had panic attacks

paffuto · 01/08/2019 15:53

The word is "Dickheadedness". Sorry you have this problem but it won't be forever.Flowers DC grow up, recognise Dickheadedness and avoid.

paffuto · 01/08/2019 15:57

Sympathies "BarryMcguigan* but that doesn't help people on the receiving end.

WatcherintheRye · 01/08/2019 16:02

Definitely sounds like manipulative behaviour, if it's happening regularly. Would it have any effect if you said "that's fine by me, we can all go to xxx now"?

fedup21 · 01/08/2019 16:04

Flaky or manipt

fedup21 · 01/08/2019 16:04

Manipulative

BarryMcguigan · 01/08/2019 16:14

@paffuto I completely agree, just wanted to offer one perspective that it may not be personal to the person being let down. It may well be! But person B may be struggling

Kfluf · 02/08/2019 01:34

I agree with BarryMcguigan. I struggle with my organisation. Might sound obvious and he might be prickly to tackle but could you try find a way to tackle it sincerely and tactfully in a spirit of "I am really struggling with this, please can we try to make a plan to work it out" and "if you are finding it hard to stick to plans please can we sit down and discuss it reasonably and try to find some sort of a solution, or at least come to a workable compromise (that can be built on later)"

And also just point out what is simply blindingly obvious courtesy and consideration to you but might not be to him. It is quite weird to me how many people there are in the world who just did not appear to gave been brought up to have such courtesies ingrained in them. More often men, I speculate, boys so often get away with so much more than girls! That doesn't mean they are narcissists, pathological or vernacular - I hate so much the way that common people-things are pathologised, vilified and written off. Its decisive and negates the search for common ground. It writes people of as different and difficult and therefore only to be fought or avoided. That's bollocks. We all have our quirks and our sore spots and our blind spots. Often people are just not taught the important common courtesies that 'oil the cogs of life' as my mother would put it. It's not a personality thing, its just a thing they haven't been taught so it just doesn't occur to people. . Some people just need it explaining, tactfully so as not to create an abrasive situation. Some people need it constantly and repetitively explaining to them, again and again, patiently til the penny finally drops, and the habit of courtesy is formed.
That, I speak from observation and experience of dealing with others.
On the organisation front, or lack there of, I speak from personal experience. Long hard experience from which I am at which I am at the end of my tether. I am constantly late and scatty and disorganised and I am constantly apologising for it and trying to explain and everything. But also people are constantly irritated for me over it. Constanyly cant see why an ostensibly able person cannot do basically relatively simple things like remembering yo tell someone they've double booked, getting bills organised, getting places on time, and all the many other random mundane organising of life. I try and try, and sometimes I am so fed up of trying that I just give up and dont try, in the name of not beating myself up about it, for I am mentally black and blue from trying to beat myself into shape. Constantly apologising, and trying to sidestep the irritation of others over it, for that does become wearing. AND its often really hard not to get irritable back....... which almost always ends up recriminations. This has been a massive stress my whole life and I have worked hard to over come it. It was always seen as adhd. I had a massive nervous breakdown three years ago now, which ended up with me suicidal and landed me in a mental hospital. They took away my adhd diagnosis and labelled me narcissistic PD. This hurt, I always thought if myself as a kind and genuine and considerate person. I had hit out accidentally hurting a policeman in the chaotic few days when I was finally reaching the nadir towards suicide, so I was sent to a forensic unit by my psychiatrist, who saw me as not being sorry enough about the policeman. I was, but she saw me as a narcissist, and decided I had not expressed enough remorse. My life and mind both fallin to pieces at this point, but I should have forgotten anything to do with me and focussed on following "remorse " according to the gospel of mental healtI've now lost three years of my life to that wretched label. And my sense of self, my sense of perception of reality, any sense of confidence in my own judgement of myself, ive been through a self loathing hell, which still haunts me from time. The narcissist word is bandied around far too much, and encourages far too much vilification rather attempt to understand people, and to try to come to understandings of people and between people.
If everyone gave a bit more the benefit of the doubt and also talked to each other rather than either getting ratty or bottling it up into a head fuck.

Theres a third possibility. He's just a dick.

Gaslighting is a staged and planned thing. Sounds like this chap is being disorganised and inconsiderate, and possible lazy, whether from ignorance or intention, but I would er on the side of ignorance rather than intention, and try to gently retrain, on the courtesy front, where his upbringing clearly omitted.
Patience at this point might pay off dividends later in his training!

Alislia17 · 02/08/2019 03:19

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

SAHM2019 · 02/08/2019 07:45

Looking at it from 2 ways... either person B is very flaky and could have their reasons for being so, like they are struggling a bit at the moment (you will know if this
is out of character for them or not) OR deliberate subtle manipulation and testing the waters to see what you will accept.
Either way I would confront it to let person B know where your boundaries are, as its then their choice if they continue to push your boundaries... and obviously your choice how you deal with them after that.
I've been in a similar situation recently, confronted it quite early on and they responded by gasslighting.

gill1960 · 02/08/2019 12:36

This is domestic abuse as classified by Section 76 of the Serious crime Act 2015.
Domestic abuse doesn't start with violence but by treating you like this they are breaking the law and committing a crime.
Psychological abuse and coercive control over your time is a crime punishable by jail.
Please ignore what they say and file for divorce.
The other website that I found brilliant was womensaid UK.
If you want to charge the person with a crime then keep a log of the abuse dates and times in a safe place and contact your local domestic abuse and safeguarding police team.

LonginesPrime · 02/08/2019 12:47

I am really struggling with this, please can we try to make a plan to work it out

Sounds like this chap is being disorganised and inconsiderate, and possible lazy

OP, obviously only you can know the situation you're in and what your ex-chap is like, but I'd suggest perhaps not giving him the satisfaction of knowing that his behaviour is bothering you.

He is supposed to have contact for the DC's benefit and if he sees that it is benefitting you (especially in a way that means you get to enjoy life without him), he's going to continue to sabotage that (along with his relationship with his DC's but thats on him).

I wouldn't recommend telling him how inconvenient his actions are for you - he'll just do it more. Just don't react, say 'ok, no worries' and expect him to flake. Make provisional plans with the kids and enjoy them when he's an idiot.

Swipe left for the next trending thread