Do non NHS people realise how bad it is at the moment?

[DoyouknowJo]

I had to justify to my managers manager why I needed to spend £7 on stationery. Stationery. Some biros, some staples and a box of envelopes.

One of my colleagues chairs broke and she was told to apply to charitable funds to get a new one.

Everything is held together with sticky tape and blu tac (literally and figuratively)

We have four members of admin staff bunched into a desk meant for two, because there is no money to pay IT to put a new port in on their desks.

Waste toner cartridges are on lockdown. If yours is full you should take a scalpel, cut the seal open, empty it and then stick it back together and put it back in the printer. Don't worry about all your printing then being covered in smudgy ink. We're broke ya know.

And some fucking idiot turned up to A&E today...because their arm has been hurting for two months and they are off on holiday tomorrow and could we sort it please.

I'm thinking of starting an anonymous instagram account to get all this crap out.

It’s mental health which needs a reform.

We have huge numbers of people turning up at A&E in crisis, suicidal, self harm. There needs to be a separate mental health A&E. These people are desperate and have every right to be there. Unfortunately, the care just isn’t there for them.

I once worked (when 16) in a shop where a lovely old man who used to shop there regularly had had a sore throat for several months. Eventually we persuaded him to go to the hospital and it turned out he had stage 4 throat cancer. So I don't think you can be so assuming about people turning up after being in pain for months. He died by the way.

We have a local service here actually outside A&E which triages the drunks on a Saturday night. Has cut waiting times down for actual patients massively. It’s paid for by donations and contributions from pubs and clubs in the area!

Mitzi that's a sad story, but why did the man not consult his GP if he had a sore throat for months?

According to the BMA health tourism costs 0.3% (up to 300 million) of the annual health budget.

www.bma.org.uk/connecting-doctors/b/work/posts/the-human-cost-of-the-39-health-tourism-39-crackdown

The problem is in lack of funding and incompetent use of those funds. This will no doubt shortly be exacerbated by further staffing shortages after 31 October.

I remember once asking on here the best present to give nurses on the ward I had been on to say thank you, expecting answers like flowers, chocolates etc and was shocked that the most common answer was biros.

@Bloodybridget

H didn't want to be a bother!

The NHS is broken.

We need a complete rethink. We don’t have to have an American system which is what everyone in their country things is the alternative to the NHS. It isn’t there are plenty of fantastic models around the world.

There is a huge amount of waste and mismanaged resources. Millions spent on computer systems not fit for purpose, millions spent on unnecessary and expensive drugs, millions spent on superfluous admin staff (went to a clinic and for an hour (that I saw) two women were stringing up Happy Retirement banners and blowing up balloons).

Someone I know was contracted to install a sprinkler system in a hospital. They were telling me that the initial meeting involved about six NHS people sitting there and a note taker. And obviously there were several applicants. Presumably this is for every contract, too.

I work in a Pharmacy and get lots of overseas customers who present with minor symptoms that we would refer them to a private GP for, once they realise they will have to pay they often say they will go to A&E....we make a big deal of telling them NO!

According to the BMA health tourism costs 0.3% (up to 300 million) of the annual health budget.

Exactly! And the Farages of this country should be fucking ashamed for the lies they have perpetuated regarding this.

@DoyouknowJo

Well, Jo, all I know is that the NHS is badly run. If it were Tesco it would have folded years ago. The inefficiency is appalling- not talking medical staff.

For a start, it's been flagged up that their purchasing practice is rubbish- they don't use one main supplier (for pens, paper, loo rolls, whatever) so there is no single supply chain which would be economically sensible. Some trusts are wasting millions by not buying economically.

Many people in private companies hot desk- that's the norm- so your bleat about people sharing a desk is laughable.

The NHS needs a huge overall by people who understand business. Look at how Dave Lewis has got Tesco out of the shit they were in. He's completely revitalised the company by making redundancies - an entire IT dept went at head office- because it was inefficient.

People in the NHS get gold plated very generous pensions, short working weeks, longer holidays than people in private industry and commerce, yet they still whinge.

I don't know anyone in a private company now who works less than a 50-60 hr week just to keep their job! In the public sector admin staff seem to work 36 hours and leave on the dot.

It's got nothing to do with money available. The NHS is one of the most inefficient organisations out there. It's had more money thrown into it in the last few years than ever- so don't bleat about the government. It's how the CEXs handle the money that is the root problem and the way they won't move into the 21stC in terms of IT - some still use bloody fax machines! Everything is on paper- letters etc- often sent late to patients, or duplicated, or lost. It's a disgrace.

I have every respect for the drs and nurses but as a ' company' it's rubbish.

There are multiple reasons why the NHS is in the state that it is now.
Firstly the top bosses are paid millions. It’s a very corrupt eton posh boy club. They don’t have to worry about buying their own pens or sharing desks.
Secondly there are a lot of NHS workers who take the piss. There are very generous sick pay benefits and I have known staff go off for 5months (full pay) come back for two days and go off sick on full pay again. Meaning that we have to either get bank staff in to cover them or just manage between us. It makes it very difficult for those who have genuine illness to be off. For example, When I was having treatment for breast cancer, I kept getting letters through the post demanding I go in for meetings, despite my boss knowing why I was off on sick. When I did return to work 11months later I was told if I have any more time off I would face a disciplinary. I was petrified of getting a cold or infection.
Thirdly, the time wasters. I cannot tell you the ridiculous amount of cases we get, you wouldn’t believe me half the time. Last week someone came running in with their baby, a newborn, it’s moving it’s moving please help. Right well she is alive, she will move and wriggle in your arms. It’s beyond a joke.
Finally, the cuts. I am pregnant now so I am on the other side as it were. I have had several gripes, despite my midwife being lovely, and my pregnancy has been relatively easy despite previous medical history, there are basic things like me not having a blue book until third app as they didn’t have any...that kind of thing.

For emergencies the NHS is pretty good. Expecting people to do their job efficiently within though is a bit of a fantasy from my experience. I can see why the NHS gets sued left right and centre. Both DH and myself have been injured as a result of people not doing their jobs properly in the NHS.

Well I have 2 say 2 months in pain is silly to go so late, however my Dr. Would class this as a minor injury and recently the have started sending you to A&E or minor injuries ward. Even if its a something minor that is definetly not broken/fractured but you just want it checking out for your child's sake...a quick checkup by Dr. Would a lot of the time be enough.
Also, and I guess it should be a post in itaelf: what is it with Doctors Having to ring you before they even dish out an appointment. It's rediculous. What do NI contributions actually pay for?

The six people in a meeting and note taker for a contract is largely to EU Regs and transparency. The principles of it are good, but it is far more manpower intensive than it needs to be for open and fair competition

Ive lived in Germany for 12 years, having lived mostly in England for the preceding 30+ years.

It's interesting to me in this context that people hold up avoiding seeking medical attention as a praise worthy ideal.

In Germany patients are encouraged to go for chileck ups, to self refer to specialists, and to see a doctor ASAP for things which would not be seen as GP worthy in the UK.

It's hard to adjust your mindset, but early diagnosis and management and prevention saves money ling term.

The system here is different but free at the point of use for everyone - the state pays health insurance for the unemployed and those unable to work, and for everyone else it's a percentage of your income, so people on very low incomes have the same insurance as people in higher incomes but pay in proportion to their earnings. It's impossible to be without health insurance, totally unlike the American system which so many in the UK seem to think is the only alternative to the NHS. Private insurance is available but actually a double edged sword.

Health care is better here. You can always get a same day GP appointment. You can self refer to a specialist though waits are longer that way - if your GP refers you you'll often be seen the same day or at least within a week as long as you aren't insisting on a after work/ school appointment time. Dentistry is also free for most things (not cleans, orthodontic work is similar to NHS funding) the difference is you can always get an appointment.

Yes, your health card is checked, but if you're ill and need to be seen immediately they will always see you first and ask you to bring your card in another day. Not so different from the NHS. I had a caesarean section here just after moving here - a far better experience tha my previous delivery on on the NHS.

People avoiding or being unable to see a doctor and the general society and NHS wide attitude that seeking NHS medical attention before you're seriously ill is selfish time wasting is a big part of the problem, not the solution!

Waiting to treat a health condition or illness until it's become serious is vastly more expensive and time consuming than catching it early or preventing it developing!

@BarryBarryTaylor You see that is a prime example- sick leave. I know someone working in a global company, snr manager, and their sick leave is full pay for 13 weeks (not 5 months.) After that it's 75% pay for a while then 50%.

The issue is no one in the public sector is accountable. They do a day's work and go home on the dot. They aren't compelled to work till they get the work done, or else the company operates at a loss and they lose their job.

The pen buying example is typical.

When I worked in an independent organisation I supplied my own pens. I needed a pen to do my job. I bought some. They are dirt cheap.When I moved into a public company they were supplied but this entailed lots of form filling etc. I wonder how many millions the NHS could save if office staff bought their own pens- £1 for a bundle at Wilkos?

because Corbyn is a bit scruffy Corbyn’s scruffiness is the least of his problems. That you can’t see that and that he can’t see that is Labour’s biggest problem. Thanks to his utter intransigence and refusal to take any sort of position on anything we are now happily trundling towards No Deal. Which should be good news for the NHS since the man who is about the become PM and one of the architects of Brexit swung the referendum with an assurance the NHS would be getting an extra £350 million a week. New biros all round.

what is it with Doctors Having to ring you before they even dish out an appointment. It's rediculous

It is not ridiculous from my viewpoint (chronic condition) - it is bloomin fantastic. Don't have to wait in a queue on the phone at 8am sharp to book an appointment that will not suit you or your employer, or your kids school pick up times etc.

You speak to a doctor who works out IF they need to see you, or if a phone consult will do, or if a prescription sent to the pharmacy for the same thing as last time will help, or if a visit to the practice nurse or phlebotomist would be time better spent by all. I think the phone consultation is fab.

I work in a museum sounds like my workplace. However we're not keeping people alive so v worrying!

I meant the op just to clarify

JinglingHellsBells presenteeism and ling hours work cultures aren't actually efficient at all. What's efficient is staff working while they're at work (not "looking busy" most of the day then actually doing the work late/ at home because the presentee work culture rewards those who are seen to be doing ling hours) and having a clear finish time and divide between work and home. Taking work home or staying in the office til late evening as a normal, expected practice leads to poor performance and burn out/ sickness/ poor staff retention.

BarryBarryTaylor. More Daily Express myths. There is nobody in the NHS paid millions. Absolutely nobody. The top figure is around £315k but that is exceptional. Only fifteen earned above £250k.

The two most highly paid chief executives were women – Tracey Batten at Imperial College Healthcare Trust and Healthcare Trust and Dame Marianne Griffiths who runs both Western Sussex Hospitals FT and Brighton and Sussex University Hospitals Trust. Ms Batten was paid the equivalent of £315,000 a year and Ms Griffiths £285,000 including a bonus.
That seems a lot but Marianne runs two complex trusts and is turning around one that has seen a succession of failed CEOs in the past decade. The other she leads is an outstanding Trust, much respected by the local communities.She has five acute hospitals, two specialists hospitals including a children’s hospital, a massive building project and oversees the acute healthcare of the majority of Sussex plus some tertiary services for patients from a wider catchment. Her staff and patient surveys are among the best in the country as is her mortality data. Perhaps a small price to pay for such good results?
Imperial is one of the country’s flagship trusts bringing a strong connection between cutting edge research and clinical care. Many of their critically ill patients benefit from having the university and research programmes on site. They have a huge patient footstep.

This thread is ironic on MN, the home of go to A&E for every minor ailment 😭where every infection needs to be checked for sepsis and every heavy period for cancer