Do non NHS people realise how bad it is at the moment?

[DoyouknowJo]

I had to justify to my managers manager why I needed to spend £7 on stationery. Stationery. Some biros, some staples and a box of envelopes.

One of my colleagues chairs broke and she was told to apply to charitable funds to get a new one.

Everything is held together with sticky tape and blu tac (literally and figuratively)

We have four members of admin staff bunched into a desk meant for two, because there is no money to pay IT to put a new port in on their desks.

Waste toner cartridges are on lockdown. If yours is full you should take a scalpel, cut the seal open, empty it and then stick it back together and put it back in the printer. Don't worry about all your printing then being covered in smudgy ink. We're broke ya know.

And some fucking idiot turned up to A&E today...because their arm has been hurting for two months and they are off on holiday tomorrow and could we sort it please.

I'm thinking of starting an anonymous instagram account to get all this crap out.

Agreed a lot of time wasters presenting at A/E with fake symptoms and when admitted for investigations which is NAD still refuse to leave the hospital bed continuing with other fake symptoms. The people that do need to be admitted find there are no beds available and end up on inappropriate wards not appropriate to treat their conditions or waiting on a bed or trolley in A/E for hours and even overnight till a bed can be found in the hospitals.

The public sometimes don't see the bigger picture they don't see the overworked nurses and doctors trying their best for patients in their care and they need to understand that the wait in A/E for admission to the hospital is dependant on bed availability. The Managers of the hospitals that are only interested in trying to prevent the 4 hour breaches in A/E or the trust will be penalised financially so its a vicious circle.

The principles that the NHS was founded on in 1948 with free care to all is outdated. Treatment is free but the waiting list is long for routine operations etc...you can pay privately for treatment but it will be the NHS that will treat you and pick up the bill if things go wrong.

So yes the NHS does need a major overhaul...and yes we have to buy our own pens and whiteboard markers however for now we are provided with ink cartridges.... for now but that could soon change.

Walkaround.... you have hit it on the nail... I think we need to take control of this ... greedy people are seemingly winning this war ...
Somehow sensible people who can look at the bigger picture and are capable of finding workable solutions,need to find a collective voice and bargaining power against privatisation.
Only people with money will see value in privatisation... those without who think this is the way to go ... are you still awaiting an appt with a
Psychiatrist? or do you work in a sector that is profiteering on illness..
Look at how we care for our old ... Care Homes run as businesses. ... profit first and people last ...what type of person wants to profit from other peoples unfortunate circumstances

My criticism of NHS waiting lists was not a criticism of the staff, it was very much a criticism of the government who have made it this way. And as much as I would like to blame the odious Jeremy Hunt for the lack of consultants, because I think he treated doctors appallingly, I don't think it applies where I am as I'm not in England.

But we have been fed the line since forever that we should be satisfied to wait months or years for a hospital appointment because it's 'free'.

I understand what you're saying but NHS processes are also costing bazillions when they don't need to.

I was admitted a couple of weeks ago. I basically became a bed blocker. Left for days and days - took 3 days for a doctor to see me. Was send home without the issue being dealt with (I needed a blood transfusion) so I collapsed at home 3 days later and had to have an ambulance take me in and stay in another week. I was in a total of 13 days when really it could have been sorted in 2/3. Plus I had to use an ambulance and go through A&E. There was no need but the hospital I was in is just hopeless at processes and patient care - I saw the day I came back that they had failed basically everything. I was just not listened to the entire time I was there.

At the same time my DSIL was being asked on the ward below how she thought money could be saved 🤷‍♀️

I also have all my letters come through twice - I've raised this issue a number of times - I don't even need a letter - just send an email! I know other people in the area are getting their letters multiple times too - can you imagine the cost if this is happening to thousands or people!? That's why you can't afford new pens. Not because Jane has bought little Freddie in because he's banged his head and she's frightened.

It’s all of those things. The reason many trusts won’t use email is because they have 20th century views on data security - which they decided to resolve by faxing everything. I know, you couldn’t make it up.

Unnecessary visits to A&E really are a major haemorrhage of money.

Alsohuman - it's understandable to have 20th century views on data protection when you still have 20th century technology . Of course, they could just take the attitude everyone's data was shared long ago, so who cares when their genital warts and NHS number are publicised on the darknet, anyway?

I don’t think emailing appointments would be particularly in breach of data protection, do you? Can you actually think of anything less confidential than a fax? I’ve read some absolutely riveting things that have been left lying around on a fax machine.

I don’t think emailing appointments would be particularly in breach of data protection, do you?

Absolutely agree, it's not as if the medical notes and test results will be emailed. Hospitals/doctors write letters to patients advising far more confidential information that can be intercepted anywhere along the postal system or could simply be misdelivered by the Postie.

Personally I think some NHS managers need to get out into the real world and see how things are done in modern business life - the amount of information they'd pick up would be massive and it would arm them with ideas to start making changes in the NHS.

I'm all for ploughing more money into the NHS but only with the specific aims of efficiency and management improvements. I'm very much against just pouring more money into it without radical reform.

fax is very secure - point to point with delivery notification.

If things are left lying around for uncleared people to view, they are using it wrongly - but as a delivery medium fax is fantastic.

As for letters - it is a deliberate thing. People take more notice of a formal letter delivered to their house than an email. A study (at least one anyhow, because I was involved) was done and it was found that people pay attention to a printed letter much more than to an email, so more people turn up to appointments if sent an actual letter, more people forget if it is sent by email.

Fax in hospitals is massively insecure, they’re in open plan offices where any Tom, Dick or Harry can pick up and read what’s just come through. Thankfully they’re being phased out.

And, by the way, the last trust I worked for wouldn’t accept complaints y email - I wonder why?

Faxes have been phased out in a lot of areas. We don’t use faxes to receive or send referrals and correspondence at our hospital.
We do still send appointment letters though which is behind the times when you consider neighbouring trusts notify you of your appointments by text with the option to securely view and download your letter via the web.
Traditionally we haven’t used email to communicate with patients because email address is poorly collected by gp practices and other parts of the NHS and the SPINE which is the demographics master for the patient often has this information missing or is inaccurate.
Also the elderly community are far more likely to use our services than anyone else and many still do not use email.

"I also have all my letters come through twice" I was once sent a hospital appointment for dd - or rather I should say 2 DIFFERENT dates and times for the SAME appointment in ONE envelope! Sheer incompetence!

@yb23487643

Doctors DON'T listen in mine and many others experience over DECADES - DON'T tell me they do and dismiss that experience. I said to SEVERAL GPs after being directed to a magazine article and then doing some follow up research and realising I probably had endo - 3 of whom outright laughed at me and only just stopped short of patting me on the head and saying something like "don't worry your pretty little stupid female head about such matters - we know best!" - all male Drs. But female Drs were just as dismissive in terms of practice. The words "hysterical" and "neurotic" are actually written in my records! I have NEVER behaved in any way "hysterical" on the matter - it's Shite, misogynistic, dismissive, incompetent bollocks!! Since getting a mh DX getting a diagnosis for pretty much ANY physical ailment is nigh on impossible! I strongly suspect I have a thyroid disorder (which could well be making my mh worse too) yet when I have tried to find out the actual results of the tests all I get told is "they're fine, within normal range" which is bloody meaningless! And the only reason u even GOT the tests in the first place WASN'T due to GP finally listening but to Mht pursuing on my behalf.

So REALLY DON'T tell me Drs listen!

I do like getting the appointments through via letter initially. They get stuck on the board in order then!

Most of the hospitals ds goes too follow up by text which is handy for the times letters have gone missing as it means I can sort it without missing an appointment.

Alsohuman - hah, that depends entirely on the trust. I've had all sorts of confidential information e-mailed to me by the NHS. As for e-mail addresses, I clearly have a similar one to someone in the US and I now know a lot about their life, pets, shopping habits and medical appointments. It's not just the NHS that has issues with data.

We have had superb care over the past two years both from our GP, rang the other night at 7pm to check medication was OK, and our local hospital. One evening a nurse was changing OH’s dressing (only nurses of a certain level could do it). The whole time, twenty minutes?, her pager was going off - she wasn’t allowed to turn it off. The pressure on her was enormous. There aren’t enough staff - front line staff.

Last year someone in the audience of Question Time had just retired after forty years in the NHS as a procurement officer. In his early days he could make decisions that saved money, by the time he left, sometimes it would take a year, as his proposals had to go through several layers of management.

Front line staff are superb - the system is poor, but as Yb23487643 posted - it’s the whole of the public sector.

But, that’s what the voters of this country voted for - the destruction of our public services when Thatcher and subsequent governments promised lower taxes and privatised the utilities. We got what we voted for.

I can’t help laughing when people declare, ‘Take Back Control’, we can’t, even if we leave the EU. All our Utilities, transport, power, water and so on are owned by other countries or shareholders. You’d probably be surprised how much of the NHS is run by private companies who take their profits first.

Ps drs do listen - we have to go document and often discuss with seniors and to make decisions. but there are lots of differentials for each presentation

So when I presented each and every time with getting stomach ache after eating or drinking anything and asking if I had a stomach ulcer. If the doctor had been listening why were his responses

I was faking to get off school.

I was trying to lose weight

I was completely unhinged so referred me to a psychiatrist who ignored what I said and made up his own stories about me.

Only got a Barium Meal test to discover I had many stomach ulcers years later after having a stand up arguement with the gp who only sent me for the test to prove I didn’t have a stomach ulcer

Why when dgf went to the doctors with indigestion a pain in his chest and pins and needles in his left arm and asked if he was having a heart attack did the doctor dismiss him as dramatic and only treat him for indigestion.
Dgf died from a heart attack hours later.

Why when Dp presented with all the symptoms of bowel cancer, asked if he had bowel cancer did he get each and every time a prescription for the relief of constipation and only get diagnosed with bowel cancer when in A&E because he had become so ill he could barely walk and it was too late as the cancer had gone everywhere

Why do doctors make notes on files when if you try to pull them up on a misdiagnosis or bad treatment your file goes up in a puff of smoke never to be seen again.

Dd had gastritis. I knew she had gastritis I had it when I was younger.

Doctors didn’t listen. They told her that I shouldn’t use dr Google.

She was admitted to hospital for 3 days.

So they could test her for each and every thing they could think of,

3 days later they finally tested her for gastritis which it was. A prescription and she was discharged.

If a doctor had listened they would have tested for gastritis first off and saved a load of money.

This is the reason why the nhs cannot afford pens. It is because they are wasting money on pointless tests.
The other ladies in the ward had various ailments all of which they had self diagnosed but it took months in some cases and loads of tests to finally get a doctor to listen.

Imagine the wastage.

The NHS needs to be run like a business - suppliers should tender so you’re not having to pay over the odds for supplies. There should be Visa card terminals in A&E like USA for those who should not be using it. We should not be providing boob jobs, facelifts.

Agency staff should not be paid double the hourly rate of a employee member of staff. We need matrons running wards. If you are abusive to staff you will be charged for your care. If you do willingly enter a drug/drink programme you will be refused treatment - time to stop taking to piss out of this service otherwise it will not be there much longer

Couldn't get any HCP to listen to me when I suffered every negative side effect going from the Mirena coil. Was downright fobbed off. 'The hormones stay in the uterus'. Oh, really? Then tell me how the fuck the pituitary gland gets the message to stop ovulation? Yeah, thought now. The uterus is kept alive by the circulatory system last I checked. I ended up having to pull it out myself.

I do feel that investment in the basics would save a fortune. I've lived abroad the last 4 years in 2 countries (one considered 'developing'). To book a doctors appointment I call a call centre for the clinic or hospital group, choose from the available dates/times and receive a confirmation by text message to the mobile number I called on. Where's the data protection issue with that? Surely we could save a fortune on missed appointments/ postage/ cancel & rebooking etc just by installing a system like this that would work fine for the 95% of people who have mobiles?

I agree with pp we should be looking at our European neighbours for alternative healthcare models. Nobody wants to be the US but trusting governments to fully finance the NHS from general taxation is also daft.

Agency staff should not be paid double the hourly rate of a employee member of staff.

More likely they COST double the rate of permanent staff members, remember that the agency takes a not inconsiderable cut of that hourly rate. Then add no training, pretty basic holiday pay from the agency (who have to cover that cost out of their cut), basic sick pay (ditto covered by agency), no guarantee of work and no money at all if they don't get a shift, and I certainly don't begrudge them actually earning a shade more than the permanent staff (if they actually do).

Just look at the childbirth/maternity threads on here. Pregnancy and childbirth is the Cinderella of the NHS and yet, if it were properly funded, the savings could be enormous.

You’d probably be surprised how much of the NHS is run by private companies who take their profits first.

You mean like GP surgeries, dentists, opticians, pharmacies, etc. It's the way it's been ever since the NHS was formed. It's never been truly wholly state owned.

You mean like GP surgeries, dentists, opticians, pharmacies, etc. It's the way it's been ever since the NHS was formed. It's never been truly wholly state owned.

GP surgeries, dentists opticians and pharmacies aren't part of the NHS though and they certainly aren't running the NHS.