Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

Chat

Join the discussion and chat with other Mumsnetters about everyday life, relationships and parenting.

Flip

1 2

Original poster

Divorced mums am I being reasonable about holiday abroad?

33 replies

aspenheidi · 12/07/2019 21:50

Hi, looking for others opinion please!!
I'm a single mother of 3, my ex only pays the minimum £7/week child maintenance. He wants to take the children abroad on holiday. Because he is unemployed living off of Universal credit I am wondering how he can afford this when he barely gives me any financial support. I have asked him the where when how why questions about the holiday and wanting him to pay half of the expense for the passports but he won't tell me anything. On top of that he says if I don't let the children go, he will take me to court and stop me from taking the children to America to visit their only grandparents (my parents). Am I being unreasonable like he says for asking for answers to the holiday questions and wanting him to pay for half the cost of the passports? Should we just go to court and have it out there? Can someone please offer me some advice? I really don't know how to handle this and don't want to get a solicitor until absolutely necessary.

OP posts:

fedup21 · 12/07/2019 21:52

Is he asking you to pay half the passports so he can take them away or you asking him to pay half so you can take them away?

surlycurly · 12/07/2019 21:54

You aren't entitled to any info about how he's affording his holiday I'm afraid, but you can ask for half the passport costs. However he can refuse to give you it in which case you have a problem. If he goes before you then I suggest you make him get the passport. If you go before him then you probably have to pay for it because I suspect he won't pay it without threatening to withdraw consent for you to take them to the US. My ex did this. Cost me a fortune in lawyers fees too until he realised I wouldn't let him go anywhere with the kids if he refused me!!!

Fridaycantsleepdoh1 · 12/07/2019 21:56

I’d expect him to tell you where he is going... so at least you know the destination. In terms of finances that’s not your business, yes it’s shit that he pays you £7 a week however the children benefit from
The holiday and how he finances it is his choice.
Passport costs should be split as both of you are taking them away, however a court won’t make him do this.

Courts essentially would just allocate weeks in the holidays and stipulate when the passports should be handed over.

You can’t stop him going abroad with them as you then expect to take them away without him?

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

Benefits Family law Relationship problems

Singlenotsingle · 12/07/2019 23:33

I just wouldn't pay for the passports. If he wants to take them away, he'll have to pay for the passports. Obviously you do the application and the photos. I seriously doubt he'd get very far with a court if his application for a forbidden steps order is just tit for tat!

GeorgiaGirl52 · 13/07/2019 06:55

If he can afford holidays abroad for three children, then he can afford more child support. Is the holiday destination his home country? Could relatives be funding his trip? Could he be planning NOT to bring them back to you? I would tell him to pay for the passports and I would want details addresses, phone numbers etc. of the destination BEFORE I gave permission.

KurriKawari · 13/07/2019 07:11

You can ask he can refuse to tell you.
Child Maintenance are a joke so wont be of any use.
You can get a solicitor but imagine the cost of that.

JingsMahBucket · 13/07/2019 07:25

There is no way in heck I’d let him take those kids without giving you full information regarding whereabouts. I’d refuse and let him take you to court. I have a feeling he’d back down and not go through with any of it. If he supposedly doesn’t have the money to take them on holiday, where would he get the money for a court case? He would likely be afraid of the discovery process.

Lonecatwithkitten · 13/07/2019 08:07

Do you have realistic concerns about the children's welfare whilst on holiday with him?
Do you have an reasonable concerns that he won't return the children from the holiday?
If the answer to both these questions is No you have no reasonable reason to refuse the holiday and a court would give him permission.
How he affords it is actually none of your business. It would be nice if he gave you flight details and the hotel details, but he doesn't have too.

Yes it would be fair if you split the cost of the passport, but I suspect he is thinking you have to get the passports anyway to go to America.
It is all about picking your battles I get your frustrations my Ex is currently not paying maintenance, but has been abroad for 10 days and taken are DC on a shopping spree when he got back. But you have to attempt to continue to coparent and refusing this if you have no reasonable concerns is going to make this coparenting relationship harder.

fedup21 · 13/07/2019 08:10

I wouldn’t be taking them to America just yet. You will need the passports for this and chances are, he won’t pay you half.

If he wants to take them abroad, let him sort their passports out!

CodenameVillanelle · 13/07/2019 08:14

Do you have it in writing that he refused to tell you where he plans to go and the threat to withhold consent to the America trip if you don't agree? Because if so, court is an empty threat. Parents are not allowed to use court to enact petty revenge and you have the evidence that that's what he plans to do.

In terms of what he should be doing for this 'holiday' - if he wants them to have passports he should pay for it. You've offered to go halves. If he won't do the applications and pay upfront then they won't have them. You can get them yourself when you need them next year.
If he does do the passports then he needs to tell you where he's taking them and give you an address. That's it. If he won't do that then you don't agree to him taking them.

urbanlife · 13/07/2019 08:23

If the children don't have passports then they can't go, simple. I would not be taking the responsibility to organise or pay for passports if I had concerns about where the children were going, or his ability to look after them properly.

You may not be legally entitled to know where the money has come from to fund the holiday, but you are morally responsible for your children's wellbeing and you certainly have a right to know where they are going and what the arrangements are - addresses, telephone numbers etc.

I would organise the passports for next year as and when you need them. I wold not be assisting him in any way with this aspect.

urbanlife · 13/07/2019 08:26

Obviously you do the application and the photos

Why would you do this? No. He should do it and pay for it, if he can afford a holiday overseas, he can certainly stretch to a few passports.

Singlenotsingle · 13/07/2019 08:40

Just saying she does the application and the passports so that OP can make sure they get sent back to her at her address, not his. She then has control.

SD1978 · 13/07/2019 08:54

Do you give him a full run down of where you will be with the kids when in the States? I actually see paying half as reasonable- you'll need it yourself for your holiday. Say no to his request for a holiday- he'll no doubt do the same- is it worth that? I'd be requesting information regarding location, and arrival time, and contact organised whilst away, FaceTime or call. But really that's about the most, especially in an acrimonious situation when I planned on a holiday later in the year.

Eustasiavye · 13/07/2019 09:02

If he is going first id let him pay for the passports.
Does he have the dcs overnight on a regular basis?
If not I think he 'd struggle to stop you taking them on holiday.
I agree, cms are a pile of s*.
My advice would be to stop telling him your plans and try your best to be light and breezy about his, even though it is difficult.

Dieu · 13/07/2019 09:29

£7??!! No wonder you're querying the useless bastard's ability to afford a holiday. That really is a joke.

Shelby2010 · 13/07/2019 10:06

The deciding question is when he is planning on going versus when you are? And when you would need to apply for passports for your trip. It seems a bit late if either of you are planning on going this summer.

Unfortunately I don’t think you’ve got grounds to stop him taking them unless you think they would not be safe with him or he wouldn’t bring them back. Also if you need the passports first then you’ve got no chance of getting the money off him. I would send something like this:

‘Dear Ex, If you want to take DC away on holiday that is fine by me. Will this be in your normal contact time or do we need to discuss possible dates? For my peace of mind I would appreciate details of your destination and I am happy to provide you with similar information when I take the DC away. I hope you agree to this as I don’t think it is worth either of us having to spend time & money in court over.

The cost for the passports will be X, I am willing to do the applications but will need your passport details (if he has one?) and half the cost upfront. As you know, money is tight and I can’t afford the full cost at this time. Regards, OP’

I expect he hasn’t got any definite plans which is why he won’t give you details. Just make sure that anything you send is reasonable enough to be shown in court.

Pinktinker · 13/07/2019 10:13

You will drive yourself crazy with this, trust me. You need to let it go. Contact CMS if you don’t think he is paying enough but otherwise, you’re sadly going to have to let it slide. The holiday may well be on finance or maybe he’s doing something dodgy, who knows...

He should pay for the passports though.

Yellowweatherwarning · 13/07/2019 10:14

How likely is he to hand over the passports after the holiday regardless of who paid for them? Then you won't be a be able to go anyway. Do the dc want to go with him? Is he capable? Would he shell out to see a judge?

SlinkyDogDash · 13/07/2019 10:18

I would try to be amicable. Why isn't he working? £7 per week is pathetic. If he's not working, can you increase your working hours (not sure if you're full-time) so you can earn more money and make your life more comfortable, as hes doing nothing at the moment he can do childcare/school runs.

I'd suggest going halves on the passports as you will both be using them. I'd avoid going to court as I think it would be costly and stressful. Hes clearly useless, so focus on building your own life and leave him in his mess.

Original poster

aspenheidi · 13/07/2019 11:07

Thank you for all the support and words of advice!!!!
Sounds like I have to 'suck it up' unfortunately and accept the laws here in England really stink and fairness in child support doesn't exist.
I already have the children's passports as we go to America every year to visit my parents (paid by my parents), which he knows all about because in the past he came too. It is the only holiday abroad I have with my children because I don't have the money for luxuries like holidays. This is a family visit. I work as much as possible already because I have to support the family on my wages, benefits and his tiny £7 week contribution.
He is a 59 year old narcissist man (we are his second family) who left us 2 years ago, quit his job, refused to get another one, and put himself in acting school in Bournemouth because he thinks he can be a successful actor. He left me with 3 months of unpaid bills, cancelled our joint bank account and all direct debits, and refused to get a job to pay child maintenance. He now 'peacocks' himself around Bournemouth befriending young 20 year olds while living on benefits. He also is trying to persuade my 11 year old that this is a great way to live and his life is great (very materialistic).
Sorry enough of the venting and pity party.
Is there a black and white law that says if he has to tell me where he is taking the children?
I don't think he would hurt or keep the children abroad. He only hurts them mentally.
Sound like he doesn't have to pay half the cost of the passports but I will keep asking.
Would letting him take me to court be worth it so that he hears himself in black and white what can and cannot be done? I think I need to hear it too.
Would the court grant a court order to keep me and the kids seeing my parents in America?
Do the courts enquire in these cases when the father is spending a lot of money but living off of benefits and not paying cmc? I think he is spending his pension.
Do the courts ever point their finger and say to the face 'your being unreasonable'? I have never been to court.
He's very controlling and I really want it to stop. If going to court would help then I am willing to be strong and try. I think
Or is it best to let it go and learn to accept how crappy this is?
(really isn't fair that I struggle and he lives a life of luxury and spoils the children when I am the one working hard but can't give the children the same)

OP posts:

Original poster

aspenheidi · 13/07/2019 11:16

sorry, just to add...
his family are here. He is English. Have no idea where he could be taking them but suspect his rich 30 something year old friend is helping with the costs. But he won't say anything.
I keep all his messages! I already learned about the importance of this in another issue with him. We only communicate via text or email. We don't talk.

OP posts:

Shelby2010 · 13/07/2019 11:30

Sorry, but I don’t think courts would be able to give an honest opinion on Ex’s character as he’s not actually abusive or doing anything illegal. Can’t legislate against him being an annoying arse.

I think you’ll just have to suck it up

llangennith · 13/07/2019 11:37

Do the children want to go? If you're concerned for their welfare speak to SS for advice.
Very unlikely he'd be able to stop you from taking your DC to visit your parents.
As he's such a twat have you considered moving back to America?

Kaiylee · 13/07/2019 13:00

If they already have passports you shouldn't be asking for half that cost. It's not costing you to get new ones. He should tell you where he is going though in case of emergency.

Flip

1 2

Swipe left for the next trending thread