Any thoughts on tonight's Panorama ( Labour Party and antisemitism)?

[BoogleMcGroogle]

I understood there to be a problem with antisemitism in the Labour party, but it really bright home to me just how institutionalised and acceptable this has been allowed to become.

It's pretty clear Corbyn doesn't care enough about antisemitism to take any meaningful action or check how his behaviour and views might have contributed to this situation.

And the statements put out by the Labour Party HQ pretty much dismissing everything as anti-Corbyn conspiracy, while wheeling out some gormless and confused shadow junior minister, were unforgivable.

I'm pretty sympathetic to the ideals of the Labour movement, but couldn't in all good conscience lend my vote to a party with a leadership that's let this happen.

Exactly so. And while it's turning in on itself, it's also failing to do its most important job - to hold the government to account by offering a viable and credible alternative government-in-waiting. It means we all suffer as a result, regardless of our party allegiances.

This doesn’t seem to have occurred to most of the party. The majority of Jezza's chums are London Borough MP's. The rest of the country is pretty much invisible to them - the Medway towns, Wolverhampton, Bristol, Huddersfield, Redcar, Bury, Ipswich, Gosport may as well not exist.

They have whipped for absention on votes which have destroyed nursing bursaries, housing and disability benefits, the NHS, education* - and Corbyn gets arsey when Labour MPs disobey. What a hypocrite.

*See Hansard.

On Friday, Momentum announced a drive to help Labour members deselect MPs (source: The Guardian) in the quest for "more diverse, younger, working class MPs".

Sounds like they want a cadre of Red Guards to revival Mao's.

SingingLily Sadly, I think it's too late. We're into the end-game of the total takeover of the LP by the extreme left-wing/heirs to Militant/Trotskyist front faction. (Plus a few Stalinists.)

3 years ago, 172 Labour MPs voted No confidence in their Leader. Only 40 supported him. In any other party, that would have been the end of Corbyn. But the rule changes in Labour, meant that the power had massively shifted to the membership, even tho' most of them had only been in the party for 10 minutes. (The pre-2015 members voted for Owen Smith by 60-40.)

I remember Livingstone saying to David Mellor, when they still had their LBC Saturday show, that the next stage would be to take over the CLPs. We've already seen Momentum in action in Wallasey (Angela Eagle) and Brighton and Hove. At that point the Party machine was still controlled by the old guard, who could suspend branches. Now it's riddled with Unite personnel, who've bullied their way into power.

Last summer Chris Williamson toured the country (on a Harley) with his Democracy Roadshow, promoting further rule changes which would make it easier to deselect MPs and replace them with pro-Corbyn candidates.

Funnily enough, just as parliament is going into recess, JF reinstates Williamson - for about 48 hrs, before she's forced to back down by MPs and Labour staffers. His continued suspension won't stop him, but hopefully the scale of the opposition to letting him off will give heart to those who want their decent and principled LP back.

Short of the membership turning on Corbyn - or fading away, as some are already doing, or a split amongst his closest Westminster supporters - the Unite faction versus McDonnell, Abbott, Lansman - we're stuffed.

I know this is a longshot, but if the schism was to actually lead to a split, I'd be delighted to vote for a Tom Watson faction.

Where I live it's more Labour than a maternity ward. My MP is useless - is only interested in a very niche issue and anyone outside that demographic is fucked. Is also blatantly anti-semitic and has been caught at it. So we have an anti-semite who is in charge of the ward which contains in one of the UK's 10 largest cities.

When it was threatened with closure because it needed massive structural work, the MP was nowhere. Local businesses and residents raised funds and this was all co-ordinated by the nearby mosques who raised the lions share of the money. The MP was most put out at not being invited to cut the ribbon when the synagogue re-opened.

And it’s really not helping when Donald Trump keeps tweeting about Israel. Jewish people have not chosen to be dragged into this, and it gives Corbyn’s left more ammunition.

To answer @Namechangingallthetime's sensitive question about the word antisemitism, in fact the term was invented at the end of the nineteenth century by an antisemite!

The question was asked very thoughtfully and respectfully here, however I have often been asked it before in a nasty way. The Semites includes Arabs and Jews and the question is usually framed to say why are you so special that you have a unique term, and why are you excluding Arabs.

Sigh. So call it Jew-hate if you prefer. Or racism.

There may always be some bigotry in society but it is frankly terrifying when it relates to the government itself, and Labour could well be in power by the end of the year. I have had my eighty-year old British-born mother turn to me and say "where will we go?". I won't forgive Labour for that.

I am pathetically grateful for the supportive comments on this thread.

I have had my eighty-year old British-born mother turn to me and say "where will we go?". I won't forgive Labour for that.

That is truly heartbreaking. I am of Jewish heritage although my Russian family washed up in France and Ireland in the 19th century and hid by converting to Catholicism. I hadn't thought a great deal about this until about ten years ago, but it really does inform my thinking now, as well as being a diasbled working class immigrant woman.

Seriously, of all parties, Labour should be my go-to. I feel utterly disillusioned and betrayed.

I'm still curious as to where the usual cheerleaders are on this thread? Have they seen the light or are they doing the fingers-in-the-ears-la-la-la thing?

I think they are doing finger's in their ears

Yes it seems like the Corbyn bots of MN and some of the more vocal labour MPs on twitter have vaporised.

While the hardcore Corbynistas are saying the programme shouldn't be shown on bbc iplayer, so that's their answer.

Yet one more of many many occasions where Corbyn could have taken the opportunity to state unequivocally that what has happened is wrong, that antisemitism is despicable and wrong, to apologise unreservedly, to say that he's taking immediate firm steps to address the problem and root it out of the party in any form. But yet again what he's done is ineffectual and unconvincing to say the least. Nothing except poor us we've been misrepresented. We are victims etc.

It really is deplorable.

Funnily enough, just as parliament is going into recess, JF reinstates Williamson - for about 48 hrs, before she's forced to back down by MPs and Labour staffers.

Such cynical timing. She thought she'd get away with it, then, Thymeout. The trouble is, it's those pesky MPs and Labour staffers and their pesky principles who are seen as the problem, not Williamson and his ilk. So yes, it's probably too late.

Ed Milliband has a lot to answer for. His ineptitude in trying to sort out the Falkirk mess meant he opened the door to the three-quid-Trots, laid down a red carpet for them and ushered them in.

Sergeantmajor, I am heartbroken for your mum.

The sad thing is that, while a nasty thread of anti Semitic thought has historically run through the politics of both the left and the right, the Labour movement has a long history of solidarity and support for the Jewish community and other oppressed communities.

My great uncle faced down Moseley's thugs because he was a working class East End socialist, and that meant he stood with his Jewish brothers and sisters against the bullies and thugs.

I really hope that, even if they have been a little quiet, this thread has given a few Labour supporters food for thought and the energy to make a stand.

Long term Labour supporter and member. Totally dismayed to see what is happening and the complete lack of any effective leadership. The only reason I have not yet resigned my membership is in support of those members, MPs and activists that are trying to get this dealt with. There is a limit though. While Socialism has always been central to my beliefs, so too has hatred of racism in any form. I cant continue to be a member of, or vote for a party that will not root out racism from within its own ranks and even worse seeks to protect the racists.

"Telling four Congresswomen of colour to “go back” is racist. But the Tory leadership candidates can’t bring themselves to say so.'

Tweet by Jeremy Corbyn today.

Unbelievable.

@Sergeantmajor for your poor mum and to you. I feel ashamed and upset that this is our official opposition. Thank you also for understanding that my question was meant not to offend. It actually makes sense now to me, that the term was invented by a racist as I do feel having a separate term gives antisemites a way to minimalise anti-semitism. I can't help thinking it would help if people started referring to it under the blanket term of racism.

I left the L.P. over AS. I've worked in the L.P. been involved at a local.and regional level but I just couldn't be true to myself if I'd stayed with this level of racism.
Momentum and Corbyn's cliques are destroying the party. I'd happily rejoin once him and his lot are out.

If anyone is interested in how Momentum are currently operating, have a look at what's happening with Birkenhead and Stockport. Really nasty business.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jul/17/antisemitism-labour-party-jeremy-corbyn-margaret-hodge

The comments on twitter after the Guardian shared this are so scary.
Character assassination, paranoia, conflation of a secular Jewish labour mp's agenda with a hard line 'zionist' one

I'm staying away from Twitter lest I go postal.

I read this yesterday and it came as no surprise sadly. I emailed MH last year to express my support even though I'm not a constituent (I live hundreds of miles away) and received a nice response.

She's part of the vanguard of women who have made their way in Parliament. If the misogynists didn’t break her, I don't think the anti-semites have a chance.

Margaret hodge is as hard as fucking nails, more than a match for the pathetic racist whiners of the Corbyn faction.

Agree Big

I agree big Margaret Hodge faced down the BNP in Barking and has spent the past decade holding MP's feet to the fire. JC is no match for her.

Good idea to send MP's an email of support. I would have thought they would be appreciated.

The purge is underway.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jul/20/hilary-armstrong-ex-chief-whip-expel-labour-party

First they came for the Communists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Communist

Then they came for the Socialists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist

Then they came for the trade unionists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionist

Then they came for the Jews
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew

Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me

Martin Niemöller

My father's family are Jewish and most of them came around 1939.

(Dad was born 1948, so his mum and dad came here from Europe).

We have had multiple conversations within the wider family about where to go. Jewish history is the history of the Disapora. We never feel safe, wherever we are.

And right now we don't feel safe.

This is so sad to hear girlflieshome

That story about Hilary Armstrong!
Aren’t these people just foul. I can hardly stand to think I share a country with them.