Are you racist?

[cloudni9e]

Watching a documentary called The Event: How Racist Are You with Jane Elliot.
And it is making me so angry how completely ignorant the white people on it are and it's reminding me of the thread I saw earlier on today on mumsnet. Please mumsnetters, check your white privilege if you are white and remember it's not enough to say you're not a racist. You need to be actively anti-racist or you are part of the problem. Racism IS violence.

I’m just seeing an awful lot of ‘white people are bad, we need to own our sins’

Not that I don’t agree that white privilege is a thing, but I don’t agree that islamaphobia is racism. Is homophobia racism? Of course not. It’s equally as evil however.

Stupid question. What is race? Skin colour? It’s not culture so what is it?

Brilliant question. Without a definition of "race", how can you have a definition of "racism" ?

Richard Dawkins (for example) doesn't agree race has a biological basis and that "species" is where it stops. Although I've read recently that scientists aren't particularly happy with the accepted definition of species either ...

islamophobiaisracism.wordpress.com

This is US based but the first result that popped up when I typed in 'islamaphobia is'. Of course homophobia isn't rooted in racism but islamaphobia 100% is because most Muslims are brown and that's why there is so much islamaphobia. What about our own barbaric practices? What about the history of colonialism and white people and Christianity? It is a racial bias and refusing to acknowledge is is plain stupid.

And @Mummoomoocow skin pigmentation might not be culture in itself but people usually have a lot of culture behind them based on their race and it means a lot to people and their history and their lives.

No I don't think I'm racist. I don't wish to be. But there are behaviours I fail to comprehend. Gangland stabbings, regular use of marijuana, a culture where men are not reliable fathers and faithful providers.
Are those stereotypical behaviours or are they concentrated in some populations/demographics? I wouldn't have much truck or respect for anybody who behaved in such ways.

I have some black friends and they are hard working people with similar values to mine. There are plenty of white people I wouldn't wish to be friends with - privileged or otherwise.

I disagree that islamaphobia is rooted in racism. It’s treated with the same way as racism but it’s not a racial idea. You can be islamaphobic, you can be racist and you can be both. Saying that most Muslim people are brown is racist. Minimising something and stripping it down to the bare skin colour that someone has is racist.

I hate organised religion. Suppose I should ignore the religion part and convince myself it’s the colour of the skin of the multiple nationality’s that I dislike for just that instead.

This is not to minimise the actual racists that piggyback on religious intolerance. But I for one will not be grouped together with people who hate others for their “race”

One thing I note about MN is that it is a generally feminist place. What I see as feminism is the strive for women to be equal to men. What I see is the desire to be the same as, not different to. Continuing the use of “race” when it is clearly a word to differentiate between human beings of different colours is a racist ideal in itself. If racism were to be avoided, we wouldn’t be thinking in such literally black and white terms and we would be thinking in terms of humanity. We are just not there yet by a huge margin.

Racism won’t die for many hundreds more years because humanity is barbaric. Feeling guilty for the state of the earth won’t change a thing. We need to refuse to allow the state of the planet to backtrack constantly. When we acknowledge white guilt and privilege, yet all we can allow to happen is to challenge our own “inner racist” and call out others micro aggressions then nothing will ever push forward.

Why does no one look at why people hate others in the first place and try to correct it rather than placing blame. Who tells you to be racist, who benefits from it. Yes there may be innate preferences and anxieties but the way humanity has developed those fears into the way the world is today didn’t just happen just because.

I am muslim.
I am brown.
I am a woman.

islamophobia/racism/sexism is part of my daily life, be it at work or out and about or even online. Oddly enough, I can cope with sexism but find it very difficult coping with islamophobia and racism whilst those being racist/islamophobic blatantly deny it.

No, Islamophobia is NOT because it's followers are brown. You need to dismiss that idea straight away, It's because if the religion itself. I believe some of it's followers are from Africa and there are an
increasing number of white followers as well.

In a healthy society any religion should be allowed to be debated and criticised without being immediately labelled as racist, which shuts down debate and stigmagtises those who criticise it.

Nope, I base my opinions on people purely on weather they are assholes. I had a similar conversation with DS 11 a few weeks back. Him and my teen sister were winding each other up she said he was gay, he made a point to tell me he wasn’t. So I said it doesn’t matter if you are, you dont base your opinions on, gay, straight, colour, ethnity, sex.... you base it on personality’s. If they have a shit personality that’s why you judge them. I have mixed heritage, so do my kids. The colour of your skin doesn’t or shouldn’t matter.

How do you define ‘actively non-racist’? I wouldn’t consider myself to be racist, but at the same time I don’t feel the need to go on anti-racist marches or engage in arguments with Britain First...

I worry about saying the wrong thing. I hate racism but also accept I am part of a society as one of the majority, where minority groups are not seen as equals.
I was thinking earlier how in the US it feels like white people think the US belongs to them. I was actually watching Beyoncé talking about her coachella show and all the theory etc behind it and found it very inspirational.
It’s the same here. It shouldn’t be like that, we’ve all ended up here from all over the place. It’s this belief that any equal treatment etc is making a special effort because aren’t we nice and that’s crap as well.

all white people do have and no black people can't be racist because white people aren't an oppressed group it's just not a thing

I’m Traveler, I’m white. Am I not a member of an oppressed group/ethnic minority? Do you even give a thought to us when topics of racism and oppression come up?

I don’t think I’m racist, I know exactly what it’s like to suffer racism. If we’re saying that all white people are racist due to culture/social influences then we’re all probably homophobic and disablist etc.

@AmmoniteTermite of course there is racism towards marginalised groups of white people and I'm not saying it's ok at all but you still have white privilege. Those articles are a good starting point to understanding it if you want to.

No none white person is ever racist Ever.. feeling better?

What I mean by what you quoted below is that reverse racism isn't real. Also posted an article on that but you can find plenty online if you're interested.

@SoleBizzz is clearly looking for an argument and I'm not going to engage. And yes clearly you're a racist we get it.

course there is racism towards marginalised groups of white people and I'm not saying it's ok at all but you still have white privilege. Those articles are a good starting point to understanding it if you want to

I’ve looked at your links, 22 out of 26 on that list of conditions a person can expect due to white privilege do not apply to Travellers. And the ones that do apply are mostly only if we deny and hide our ethnicity.

What privaliges do you think we experience as white travellers?

Btw, I’m not denying white privilege exists, but you can’t really say Travellers have any real substantial privilege in this country due to being white.

of course there is racism towards marginalised groups of white people and I'm not saying it's ok at all but you still have white privilege

It’s just so dismissive of the struggles we face. Racism towards travellers is ok because we are white skinned.

It’s ultra woke racism. (Feminism tends to ignore and dismiss us too).

It’s like we don’t even exist.

No @AmmoniteTermite it's not dismissive and I always stand up for travellers when other people are racist about them and unfortunately I do come across it from time to time and I know it's rife and it's fucking bullshit and I'm sorry you have to go through it but that doesn't take away from the privilege of having white skin. White privilege is not about how underprivileged you are in any other way than having white skin but white skin does afford people certain privileges and it isn't 'woke' to say so it's just acknowledging the truth.

Ok well you can do your own research if you feel like it but can I also ask out of interest if you don't mind explaining how you feel like feminism leaves out travellers? Maybe it does I've never thought about it.

I certainly, like I believe everyone my thoughts and reactions can be unconsciously bias

Have I made assumptions based on a stereotype of course

Does that make me racist I guess it does

I challenge myself. I like to think that I treat people equally but I know I make assumptions I believe we all do

Tell me what privileges you believe we have and how they compare with black the experiences of non white ethnic minorities. It will help be to understand how much you actually know/are aware about our issues.

Feminism never talks about the specific issues faced by traveler women- they absurdly high rate of miscarriage, the lack of refuges (only one ten bed house in the uk) despite 74 to 80% us experiencing domestic violence, the lack of access to education, the sky high mental health issues etc.

Whenever Travellers are mentioned it’s quickly shut down with ‘yeah, I agree that’s bad but moving on..’ .
Even on the FWR board I’ve tried bringing it up several times over the years and only 2 posters have ever tried to engage in any meaningful way.

It’s hurtful, we are invisible, our voices not even a whisper in the wind.

And please don’t think I’m ignorant of racism sufferer by non white ethnic peoples, I do (as much as I can). My DH is black African, I’m white traveller, we have experienced tremendous racism from all corners and continue to do so. Race issues are very much a part of our lives.

AmmoniteTermite

I agree travelers have become invisible as a group of people that are not really included the shocking statistics of not only domestic violence but life expectancy and the high rate of mental illness is overlooked as I think many will just make make the excuse well they (travellers ) do their own thing and don’t want to be part of society - but not question why so many might not feel they are part of society

When I read that you were married to a black African my first thought was oh that mustn’t have gone down well with your family

An assumption based on what ?

I don’t know them

I don't think I am. I certainly am not overtly, and don't treat people differently according to difference of any sort of appearance, be it skin colour or disability etc.

It irritates me though that people have coined the term islamophobia, to mean that anyone that disagrees with the religion is hating of all Muslims. Plenty of people don't share my Christian beliefs, are outspoken about it but that doesn't make them racist, or christianphobic it means they share my beliefs, that's a very different thing.

Nearly everyone hangs around with people who share similar interests, that's not racism either. It's natural to want to spend time with people who share your culture, look at expat communities abroad, it's a natural affinity and most people have this.

Is the problem when these groups exclude others intentionally based on their ethnicity? I have to caveat all this as my musings and by saying I live in a very undiverse area, but have lived abroad for a while, but generally don't have much contact with non-British people though not by design.

It doesn't occur to me when chatting to people of other nationalities to be anything but intrigued by cultural/belief differences, but maybe that's my naivety.

@ammoniteTermite I know this is probably insensitive, but in the interests of being frank, and having an open conversation, when you say that racism is part of your every day life, how? Is it obvious/blatant things, or more insidious things that I could be playing into without even realising it?