DD's welfare when staying with her dad - at my wits' end

[Vinosaurus]

Firstly, I’ve been on here for millennia (pouffe of poo, penguin date, Mexican house thief etc.) but had to set up a new account after updating my email address to something I for the life of me can’t remember after all the data breech palaver, and can thus no longer log on to my old account.

Secondly, I am so SO sorry about the length of this post – I think it may break some sort of MN record. And if you read this in full, I really appreciate it.

I’ve posted about individual incidents in the past, but I’m now at a stage when I am really looking at the whole picture and need some perspective with regards to DD’s visitation with her dad, as suspect I may have lost some over the years. I am fully expecting responses ranging from you terrible/negligent mum for sending her there through to I can’t believe you’re even considering reducing contact, but I am honestly interested in people’s opinions, whatever they may be.

XH and I split in 2011. He was always a pretty crap dad – adored DD but incapable of looking after her, not surprising considering his main hobbies were sleeping and smoking weed. I had on occasion found that he had left her alone when he went to the shops for cigarettes (I returned home from work at least twice to find toddler DD in her cot and home nowhere to be found), which I was beyond livid about. He spent pretty much all of our (read: my) money on weed, fags and bankrolling his family, to the point I was buying nappies with Boots points, taking out loans and maxing credit cards to pay the bills/rent as we had no cash in the bank (all in my bloody name as he had a terrible credit rating – which I then had to pay off when we split). Yeah, I know, he sounds like a right catch doesn’t he. Anyway, I threw him out and got the police involved when he began being extremely verbally abusive and was beginning to get physically violent; punching holes in the wall when he was angry, grabbing and pushing me – the day he went he even barricaded v young DD and I in her bedroom. He received a caution as I didn’t want to go ahead with charges.

I ended up with crippling anxiety, panic disorder and depression (there was more to his behaviour than just the above but not relevant to this post), which I have worked hard with various therapists to recover from (it is under control these days). I moved out of London back in 2013 (which was contributing to my declining health), although not too far outside so as to maintain contact between DD and XH, I also met someone else and remarried in 2015. XH and I have kept an amicable relationship – I’ve continued to support him and his family in various ways, including letting him go long periods of time when he hasn’t paid a penny in maintenance (although I certainly have not written off this debt and still owes me thousands) due to his own financial mess (now has payday loans, CCJs etc). So, it has been more like me tolerating him and him (still) relying on me. Obviously, I’ve done this for the sake of DD, and I have always maintained that her having a positive relationship with her dad, including regular visits, was the best thing for her, and that it was also beneficial for her to have a father that was not a complete mess (hence my continuing support).

As I mentioned above, he adores her in his own way, and she loves him very much too – although the relationship is not particularly healthy in my opinion; his love for her is demonstrated by repeatedly saying “I love you my princess, do you love me?” when he sees her and on the occasional phone call that I am party to, impossible to keep promises, and smothering and infantilising her; she is almost 11, he continues to treat her like a 5 year old, which she has really begun to notice, recently asking me to please speak to him. But when it comes to making responsible decisions or sacrifices for her (as you will see when you read below) that’s where the love stops. DD on the other hand is incredibly defensive of him (don’t misconstrue this, I do not badmouth him in front of her at ALL) and feels a large amount of responsibility, and therefore I suspect, associated guilt, for his happiness and wellbeing. On occasion I have seen her playing the role of mother to him rather than him father to her.

Over the years XH has lurched from one crisis to another – financial, housing, employment, the law (!) – and made some awful decisions which have on occasion affected his ability to accommodate DD in a safe and healthy environment when she visits. The agreement has always been that she stays Friday-Sunday EOW and ½ the holidays, with him collecting her on Friday and me/DH collecting her on Sunday. We also swap Xmas/NY/Easter every year. I have always played this balancing act between maintaining her relationship/contact with him whilst trying to keep her safe. But I’ve recently begun to think that this is no longer achievable. The historical and current issues being:

• Running a puppy farm from his house, resulting in an absolutely disgusting environment (the smell was, no exaggeration, gag inducing when you walked into the house). I gave him many warnings about this, not only for the sake of DD but obviously the poor dogs as well and did take action after he ignored my concerns and lied to me repeatedly, although he was forced to stop (lost the house – quelle surprise) before they took formal action.

• There is obviously the concern that he may still have a prolific weed habit, but I do not know this for sure, although am pretty certain he wouldn’t/couldn’t have given this up. He smokes normal cigarettes but believe he does this outside (cigarettes not being ideal of course, but not a deal breaker).

• Renting a large house and subletting rooms to strangers (men) off the internet – I put a stop to her staying when I found out about this (and even spoke to a family law charity and the NSPCC to get some advice) and offered to drive her to him and collect her so she could still visit during the day – he did this once and then decided he didn’t like it, so we compromised and she started staying at his sister-in-law’s flat when she visited him instead (this is unfortunately no longer being an option).

• Since XH and I split, DD has regularly come home with bedbug bites (confirmed by actually catching one of them in her clothes when undressing after returning from his once – we put it into DD’s insect viewer!). We have been in this constant cycle of her returning home with bites – him getting his house/flat/wherever he is currently living treated – no bites for many months – the bites returning – him getting the place treated – no bites for months, and on and on. It is incredibly hard to know what to do, as the only indication I have that the problem is solved is to send her back and wait to see if she gets new bites (XH doesn’t react to them). Poor DD has to strip in the kitchen when she gets home so I can wash all her clothes (including any clean ones she still has in her bag) on a boil wash and wrap her bag (and anything else that can’t be washed) up in plastic and put it in the chest freezer to stop them infesting our house (not that she’s ever gotten bites at home but I’ve had exterminators out to ours in the past just to do a check, fortunately my obsessive washing and freezing has worked to date). Of course, they are very uncomfortable/itchy (with the possibility of them becoming infected) and unsightly, the latter becoming more of an issue the older she is getting and resulting in situations such as her refusing to remove her cardigan at school even when it’s extremely hot. I have offered to pay for reputable exterminators to come out and also help him buy new furniture – he has always declined. I also recently found out that he was not paying for follow up visits from the exterminators he was using (which are needed to fully eradicate them from a property), which explains the cycle of them going for a few months, only to return.

XH moved into a new flat a few weeks ago, which finally has one bedroom for DD and one for him (she mainly slept with him in his bed – another issue I had but not bad enough to stop her staying) – there’s no living room and it’s somewhat rough around the edges, but from what I could see (I asked to have a look) it was hygienic, secure and safe. I was happy that it looked like XH had managed to finally sort a suitable place out for him and her and that we could return to the old agreement of Fri-Sun EOW staying with him. The weekend before last was her first overnight in the new flat, picked her up on Sunday to find bedbug bites on her arms and shoulders. He told me that he was getting an exterminator out, I asked for evidence this time, he is saying he can’t provide this (something to do with the person he’s using not wanting any paperwork as he’s not charging him VAT – doesn’t sound very reputable to me!). I am at the stage now when I no longer want to send her to stay overnight anymore, but how permanent do I make this? I mean, I could say no overnights for 3 months and then let her go back to stay, but it is only a matter of time (as evidenced many times over the past years) until she returns with them once again, in other words I have to yet again send DD there with the very real possibility of being bitten to prove whether or not the problem has been solved, and I am pretty much at the stage of no longer being willing to do this. Poor DD is so incredibly torn as well, she is upset when she can’t stay overnight but is also upset and suffers from the bites. Obviously, the decision lies with me, not her, as to what to do, but I do try to take her feelings into consideration as much as possible.

When I look at it all written down it looks pretty clear that I need to stop her staying overnight, but I feel like I am the bad guy (yet again) for “splitting up” a father and daughter. I don’t mind being the bad guy - well, I do, but something I just have to put up with to keep DD safe. Nor do I mind continuing to facilitate visitation as much as practically possible but without the overnights.

Again, thankyou so much for reading – think you would have had an easier time reading War and Peace.

I think I'd stop the overnights but continue with day visits. At least until shes a little older and/or you are sure hes in stable, hygienic and decent accommodation.

If you split up in2011 she must be 10 or over? What does she want to do?

I think of you facilitate them having daytime contact but no overnights until he can sort himself out you're not splitting anyone up. It sounds like you've bent over backwards for him and maybe you need to stop doing that and make him face up to things?

How does your DD feel about it?

Anothernewone - she is indeed, almost 11. When I try to talk to her about it she gets very upset, she is very defensive of him, saying it isn't his fault (although I've never placed blame - well not vocally), but hates the bites - she basically starts crying and says it's really difficult and that she doesn't know what to say.

I agree, daytime contact but no overnights. it sounds like you don't have a court order so you're not in breach of anything, and he is presumably too chaotic to take it to court.

Btw, when my dd was younger than yours, she used to sleep in her dad's bed during her contact, and the CAFCASS officer was horrified and it was deemed very inappropriate. (The fix was for exH to sleep on the couch so dd had the bed to herself, which is okay with me).

In some way the bites make it easy, because it's a clear explanation for your dd that makes sense to her and it's not a direct criticism of your exH.

she basically starts crying and says it's really difficult and that she doesn't know what to say. I think she wants you to make the decision and be the 'bad guy'. She doesn't want to upset her dad by saying she doesn't want to go to his. If you tell her she can't go, I doubt she'll put up much argument.

Try it and see. Say that the bed bugs are a health concerns so you are going to stop overnights, but she can still see him xyz. See if she is really upset. I'll bet she'll be secretly grateful.

I hope so Biblomania - I tried explaining to her why she couldn't stay when his house was populated by random blokes off the internet and she found it very hard to accept that they were potentially a danger - I hope that the bites, being more tangible, are easier to understand.

I think at 11 years old she should be able to decide herself now. You could discuss the options with her.

This is providing things don't get worse anyway. Yes, 11 year old children still need protecting but most are very independent by this point and have a voice of their own.

I know it's frustrating but you have come so far and you don't have many years left of this. I would continue to keep a close eye though in case his situation changes for the worse again.

Personally, I'd put a complete stop to overnight visits immediately. The bedbugs will hopefully be a good enough reason to your daughter.

You're doing great. for you

Nesssie - that could be it, I really don't want her to have the pressure of making the decision herself, although obviously want her to be able to talk to me about how she feels.

I wonder if she’d be relieved if you took the decision out of her hands and stopped the overnights but still facilitated day time visits. She maybe would feel too guilty to tell her dad she doesn’t want to stay and if you’re willing to be the “bad” guy it might help her enormously. Sounds like a really tricky situation and that you’ve been incredibly understanding.

Wow - thanks so much for the kind words too, I do feel I've done as much as I can do to guide him in the right direction to get his life sorted and do the best thing for his daughter, but you can lead a horse to water and all that.

Dont get the bed bug bites thing.
When dad was in his previous place, she shared his bed- presumably she no longer does that- what does she sleep on now, and where have the bed bugs come from?

Jessbow - since he and I split he has lived in various places, each one of them has been or become infested with bed bugs and she has been affected by these whether she has slept in his bed or one of her own (she did once have her own bed at his for a short time, although this had to be thrown away due to the bed bugs). She now has a bed at the new flat, although this is not brand new and prior to him moving into the new flat it was sublet by another member of his family to various people, and thus the bed (and quite possibly the mattress ... eugh) was occupied by someone else.

Bed bugs are transferred between places very easily in furniture and luggage/clothing if precautions are not taken, and most likely he is just transferring them from one place to the next each time he moves. They do not necessarily live in the bed, but travel there from their hiding places (as above, nooks and crannies in furniture etc.) during the night to feed on the occupier of the bed (in this case, my DD).

I agree with stopping the overnight contact. I think, as PPs have said, that she wants you to make the decision on her behalf. She will probably feel relieved not to stay and also not to be the bad guy to her dad.

And honestly, I'd probably just say "We'll knock the overnights on the head for the time being", and not give a date when they might start up again. Honestly, given what you've said about him I wonder if your ex would ever chase it up.

I think she is too young to confidently say no to staying with him as I imagine she doesn't want to disappoint him.

There is no way I would let her go there again, day or night for health reasons

I'd stop overnights. And to your DD I would say 'I'm very happy for you to see dad during the day times as often as you want/he wants/whatever, but I can't let you stay overnight right now because I'm not having you coming back covered in bites. It's not fair of me on you to allow that to happen and my job as your mum is to make sure it doesnt'

All said with a nice smile and a firm ish tone. No need to get into him being a repulsive man at all. Be firm and explain why this can't happen

Assuming she starts big school in September best stop the overnights now. Going to school with bites will have her bullied for being scruffy imo. You know you aren't responsible for them but her friends may not be so understanding... Nor may their dps.
She is old enough to know her df isn't quite on pedastal level now.

Whathappenedtooursummer that's right, she does start high school in September. She had to visit the first aider at school last week when she had the bites as they were causing her so much distress, and they've most likely noticed them in the past - so on top of concerns for her, I have to make sure that I am dealing with the situation and protecting her or I could be accused of being neglectful.

I have to make sure that I am dealing with the situation and protecting her or I could be accused of being neglectful.

He is neglectful, and you are aware of this. To allow this to continue would make you neglectful. Secondary school may make a referral to SS, which won't make things better. Stop overnights as advised above and get exH to chase it with the courts if he has an issue- that way if she ha to return it's court ordered.

Take photos of the bites if you can.

Sorry, I was agreeing with you, not telling you something you already know!

I’d stop overnights without a second thought. ( try to stop days as well but that’s beside the point).
Let him take you to court. Surely nobody should be expected to sleep there.
You’re a much nicer person than me I’d have stopped contact years ago.

Thanks Hmmmbop - I understand 🙂 I've fortunately taken photos over the years, not of all, but quite a few of the incidences, plus one of the captured bedbug in the insect viewer. Hopefully these, alongside the various emails and texts that we've exchanged over the years (which include a lot of me trying to help/resolve the situation without reducing contact), will back up my decision if it does end up going to court.

Well, I've sent him an email telling him I'm stopping overnights - just waiting for the fireworks to start.