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DD's welfare when staying with her dad - at my wits' end

60 replies

Vinosaurus · 03/07/2019 16:05

Firstly, I’ve been on here for millennia (pouffe of poo, penguin date, Mexican house thief etc.) but had to set up a new account after updating my email address to something I for the life of me can’t remember after all the data breech palaver, and can thus no longer log on to my old account.

Secondly, I am so SO sorry about the length of this post – I think it may break some sort of MN record. And if you read this in full, I really appreciate it.

I’ve posted about individual incidents in the past, but I’m now at a stage when I am really looking at the whole picture and need some perspective with regards to DD’s visitation with her dad, as suspect I may have lost some over the years. I am fully expecting responses ranging from you terrible/negligent mum for sending her there through to I can’t believe you’re even considering reducing contact, but I am honestly interested in people’s opinions, whatever they may be.

XH and I split in 2011. He was always a pretty crap dad – adored DD but incapable of looking after her, not surprising considering his main hobbies were sleeping and smoking weed. I had on occasion found that he had left her alone when he went to the shops for cigarettes (I returned home from work at least twice to find toddler DD in her cot and home nowhere to be found), which I was beyond livid about. He spent pretty much all of our (read: my) money on weed, fags and bankrolling his family, to the point I was buying nappies with Boots points, taking out loans and maxing credit cards to pay the bills/rent as we had no cash in the bank (all in my bloody name as he had a terrible credit rating – which I then had to pay off when we split). Yeah, I know, he sounds like a right catch doesn’t he. Anyway, I threw him out and got the police involved when he began being extremely verbally abusive and was beginning to get physically violent; punching holes in the wall when he was angry, grabbing and pushing me – the day he went he even barricaded v young DD and I in her bedroom. He received a caution as I didn’t want to go ahead with charges.

I ended up with crippling anxiety, panic disorder and depression (there was more to his behaviour than just the above but not relevant to this post), which I have worked hard with various therapists to recover from (it is under control these days). I moved out of London back in 2013 (which was contributing to my declining health), although not too far outside so as to maintain contact between DD and XH, I also met someone else and remarried in 2015. XH and I have kept an amicable relationship – I’ve continued to support him and his family in various ways, including letting him go long periods of time when he hasn’t paid a penny in maintenance (although I certainly have not written off this debt and still owes me thousands) due to his own financial mess (now has payday loans, CCJs etc). So, it has been more like me tolerating him and him (still) relying on me. Obviously, I’ve done this for the sake of DD, and I have always maintained that her having a positive relationship with her dad, including regular visits, was the best thing for her, and that it was also beneficial for her to have a father that was not a complete mess (hence my continuing support).

As I mentioned above, he adores her in his own way, and she loves him very much too – although the relationship is not particularly healthy in my opinion; his love for her is demonstrated by repeatedly saying “I love you my princess, do you love me?” when he sees her and on the occasional phone call that I am party to, impossible to keep promises, and smothering and infantilising her; she is almost 11, he continues to treat her like a 5 year old, which she has really begun to notice, recently asking me to please speak to him. But when it comes to making responsible decisions or sacrifices for her (as you will see when you read below) that’s where the love stops. DD on the other hand is incredibly defensive of him (don’t misconstrue this, I do not badmouth him in front of her at ALL) and feels a large amount of responsibility, and therefore I suspect, associated guilt, for his happiness and wellbeing. On occasion I have seen her playing the role of mother to him rather than him father to her.

Over the years XH has lurched from one crisis to another – financial, housing, employment, the law (!) – and made some awful decisions which have on occasion affected his ability to accommodate DD in a safe and healthy environment when she visits. The agreement has always been that she stays Friday-Sunday EOW and ½ the holidays, with him collecting her on Friday and me/DH collecting her on Sunday. We also swap Xmas/NY/Easter every year. I have always played this balancing act between maintaining her relationship/contact with him whilst trying to keep her safe. But I’ve recently begun to think that this is no longer achievable. The historical and current issues being:

  • Running a puppy farm from his house, resulting in an absolutely disgusting environment (the smell was, no exaggeration, gag inducing when you walked into the house). I gave him many warnings about this, not only for the sake of DD but obviously the poor dogs as well and did take action after he ignored my concerns and lied to me repeatedly, although he was forced to stop (lost the house – quelle surprise) before they took formal action.

  • There is obviously the concern that he may still have a prolific weed habit, but I do not know this for sure, although am pretty certain he wouldn’t/couldn’t have given this up. He smokes normal cigarettes but believe he does this outside (cigarettes not being ideal of course, but not a deal breaker).

  • Renting a large house and subletting rooms to strangers (men) off the internet – I put a stop to her staying when I found out about this (and even spoke to a family law charity and the NSPCC to get some advice) and offered to drive her to him and collect her so she could still visit during the day – he did this once and then decided he didn’t like it, so we compromised and she started staying at his sister-in-law’s flat when she visited him instead (this is unfortunately no longer being an option).

  • Since XH and I split, DD has regularly come home with bedbug bites (confirmed by actually catching one of them in her clothes when undressing after returning from his once – we put it into DD’s insect viewer!). We have been in this constant cycle of her returning home with bites – him getting his house/flat/wherever he is currently living treated – no bites for many months – the bites returning – him getting the place treated – no bites for months, and on and on. It is incredibly hard to know what to do, as the only indication I have that the problem is solved is to send her back and wait to see if she gets new bites (XH doesn’t react to them). Poor DD has to strip in the kitchen when she gets home so I can wash all her clothes (including any clean ones she still has in her bag) on a boil wash and wrap her bag (and anything else that can’t be washed) up in plastic and put it in the chest freezer to stop them infesting our house (not that she’s ever gotten bites at home but I’ve had exterminators out to ours in the past just to do a check, fortunately my obsessive washing and freezing has worked to date). Of course, they are very uncomfortable/itchy (with the possibility of them becoming infected) and unsightly, the latter becoming more of an issue the older she is getting and resulting in situations such as her refusing to remove her cardigan at school even when it’s extremely hot. I have offered to pay for reputable exterminators to come out and also help him buy new furniture – he has always declined. I also recently found out that he was not paying for follow up visits from the exterminators he was using (which are needed to fully eradicate them from a property), which explains the cycle of them going for a few months, only to return.

XH moved into a new flat a few weeks ago, which finally has one bedroom for DD and one for him (she mainly slept with him in his bed – another issue I had but not bad enough to stop her staying) – there’s no living room and it’s somewhat rough around the edges, but from what I could see (I asked to have a look) it was hygienic, secure and safe. I was happy that it looked like XH had managed to finally sort a suitable place out for him and her and that we could return to the old agreement of Fri-Sun EOW staying with him. The weekend before last was her first overnight in the new flat, picked her up on Sunday to find bedbug bites on her arms and shoulders. He told me that he was getting an exterminator out, I asked for evidence this time, he is saying he can’t provide this (something to do with the person he’s using not wanting any paperwork as he’s not charging him VAT – doesn’t sound very reputable to me!). I am at the stage now when I no longer want to send her to stay overnight anymore, but how permanent do I make this? I mean, I could say no overnights for 3 months and then let her go back to stay, but it is only a matter of time (as evidenced many times over the past years) until she returns with them once again, in other words I have to yet again send DD there with the very real possibility of being bitten to prove whether or not the problem has been solved, and I am pretty much at the stage of no longer being willing to do this. Poor DD is so incredibly torn as well, she is upset when she can’t stay overnight but is also upset and suffers from the bites. Obviously, the decision lies with me, not her, as to what to do, but I do try to take her feelings into consideration as much as possible.

When I look at it all written down it looks pretty clear that I need to stop her staying overnight, but I feel like I am the bad guy (yet again) for “splitting up” a father and daughter. I don’t mind being the bad guy - well, I do, but something I just have to put up with to keep DD safe. Nor do I mind continuing to facilitate visitation as much as practically possible but without the overnights.

Again, thankyou so much for reading – think you would have had an easier time reading War and Peace.

OP posts:
blaaake · 04/07/2019 13:27

Wishing you the best of luck Thanks

Hmmmbop · 04/07/2019 14:31

Well done. How did DD take it?

Bookworm4 · 04/07/2019 14:39

I’m mystified why you allow your DD anywhere near this moral degenerate,ran a fuckin puppy farm? Did you report him to RSPCA? Illegally subletting? Drug habit, filthy house? Have you no conscience either?
What a shitshow, I think you are nearly as lacking in judgement as your ex.

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Alwaysgrey · 04/07/2019 14:46

Well done on stopping overnights. I feel so sorry for your dd. I know he’s her dad but he sounds like a complete and utter waste of space.

MrsSpenserGregson · 04/07/2019 14:50

I would be stopping all contact with this sorry excuse for a man who clearly has no idea how to parent or to function as a proper human being.

DD's long-term interests are what matter here. Nobody knows more than I do (I've never met my birth father) how important it is for children to have contact with their parents whenever possible, but right now this guy is not suitable or capable of looking after your daughter, and she should not be exposed to him. Bedbugs, drug habit, filthy house, illegal puppy farm, financially subsidised by you - FFS.

Vinosaurus · 04/07/2019 15:00

MrsSpenserGregson - I'm certainly not financially subsidising him now unless you could the fact that I haven't been able to get maintenance out of him for long periods of time...by god I've tried though.

OP posts:
blackcat86 · 04/07/2019 15:04

The thing is that she is at risk of bed bugs if she goes to the flat at all so whilst I agree with no overnight even days at the flat put her at the same risks. The bed bugs can be in any fabrics. Could he not see her out somewhere instead?

CodenameVillanelle · 04/07/2019 15:11

What a shame that you bent over backwards and enabled this loser to have such an important place in DD's heart all those years ago. She would have been much better off had you let him fade away tbh. But it's done now. I imagine he's taken his manky infested furniture with him to the new house so now he will be totally infested there too. Stop overnights. Make a protective decision for her.

CodenameVillanelle · 04/07/2019 15:12

You've offered to buy him new furniture. The level of enabling you have for this sorry twat is extraordinary.

Missingstreetlife · 04/07/2019 15:12

He negects her, exposes her to risk and you don't protect her? Step up.

IwantedtobeEmmaPeel · 04/07/2019 15:19

I'm afraid I totally agree with the comments above by CodenameVillanelle.

It's a shame you didn't move a lot further away from London - is that an option if the "fireworks" start up again.

AmICrazyorWhat2 · 04/07/2019 15:19

OP, please ignore the posters who are having a go at you. You've tried your best to protect your DD while maintaining her relationship with her Dad.

I agree that the overnight visits have to stop until he gets the bedbugs sorted out and that at 11, your DD needed you to make the decision, it's too much to ask her to make it when she loves her Dad so much. My DS (also 11) would need me to do the same. Wishing you all the best and I hope your ex finally realises how lucky he is to have a DD who loves him and how patient you've been with his continual screw ups. Flowers

Vinosaurus · 04/07/2019 15:20

I am stepping up FFS - the email is sent, the overnights have stopped (they had literally only just restarted after I stopped them when he was subletting his rooms out to strangers if the internet).

What you see as enabling I see as trying to balance her need and desire to see him and maintian a positive relationship with both of her parents whilst strill trying to keep her safe, I CAN SEE that I can do no more and we're at the end of the road now though.

OP posts:
dottiedodah · 04/07/2019 15:23

I think you have been remarkably patient up to now TBH!.You just need to say to them both "As Susie is due to start senior school in sept , maybe just visit in the day as H/W will increase ,and she wont have as much time as before! ".I think you have gone out of your way to accomodate him ,and as someone else said you need to ensure a safe clean enviroment for your daughter .Puppy farming is horrendous and as well as being far from clean was extremely distressing for a young child to witness!.

Vinosaurus · 04/07/2019 15:24

Unfortunately not IwantedtobeEmmaPeel - our business is here.

OP posts:
floribunda18 · 04/07/2019 15:29

Daytime contact and not in his home. Make a record of all the issues in case it gets legal.

CornerofUpandDown · 04/07/2019 15:51

YANBU

I also think it would be a good idea for both of you to access support from Families Anonymous famanon.org.uk/

Vinosaurus · 04/07/2019 15:57

Thanks so much, CornerofUpandDown - that link is really helpful.

OP posts:
EileenAlanna · 04/07/2019 16:00

Your DD is getting older now, dealing with big changes like school etc. She's at an age where she can reason things out & foresee consequences & gauge other peoples perceptions of her, such as being covered in bed bug bites. When she says it's not his fault, gently ask her who's fault it is. I think you've done a fantastic job in really bad circumstances. She needs to connect the dots herself now, things like bed bugs CAN be killed permanently but he's the only one who doesn't get it done. The risk that she'll go on to be an enabler not only with him but with the men in her future relationships is there.

GreenGrowTheRushesOhh · 04/07/2019 16:10

I think you know that you’ve made the right call. You have done everything you can to facilitate their relationship but it’s clear that the bad very much outweighs the good.

FWIW I also react to bed bug bites, as I discovered on holiday a year or two back. It was really painful and irritating and I was miserable (and embarrassed). You need to protect her from that. Flowers

Vinosaurus · 04/07/2019 16:19

The risk that she'll go on to be an enabler not only with him but with the men in her future relationships is there.

That's a chilling thought - fortunately, she has some very positive male role models in her life who will hopefully counter some of the crap that her father is imparting on her.

OP posts:
Vinosaurus · 04/07/2019 16:44

Yes @Bookworm4 - I did report him.

OP posts:
IceQueenCometh · 04/07/2019 17:09

I'm glad you have taken steps to stop this OP. Letting it continue is doing DD no favors at all. You're telling her that it's ok for someone who loves to treat her in such an appalling, irresponsible and disrespectful manner. Where will that leave her when she's in a relationship as an adult? What will her expectations be?

No you don't want to upset her but you really must be the bad guy here. My view is that visits with her DF should be supervised until there is evidence that he won't be so neglectful. It's your responsibility to protect her and she needs protecting from him. It's not up to other male role models in her life to counter her father's crap, it's up to you to stop it.

I know you've taken the first step but in all honestly I think you need to take a lot more.

sevenoftwelve · 04/07/2019 18:09

It's great that you're doing so well now within yourself, but I'm not so sure you've overcome the 'conditioning' his abuse left you with.

The fact you've spent all this time still trying to rescue him and trying to overlook some really concerning stuff in your desperation not to stop him seeing the child he involved in his domestic violence is a bit frightening.

Mainly because you don't seem to see how odd that is and how controlled you still are by him in these attempts to continue trying to meet his needs.

Did you do the Freedom Programme at any point? Www.freedomprogramme.co.uk - it's info, not therapy.

If you're expecting fireworks for putting your foot down about this, honestly can you say knowing you would face that didn't influence any of your decision making over the last 8 years?

Freedom Programme might help you see this situation differently - and be able to proactively teach your DD about healthy relationships - in order to establish better boundaries and a more healthy way of dealing with this.

It teaches about the dynamics of abusive relationships (not just a checklist of abusive actions, but the power and control that drives it), how it affects us and children exposed to it, as well as what healthy relationships look like.

It's not your job to save him. You aren't going to do your DD any favours by sustaining an unhealthy relationship, where she's being neglected and coming to harm, where she's internalising this idea that it's down to her to try and save him and down to her to squash her feelings away to make him happy, and where controlling, abusive behaviour is being normalised.

I think you need to put more emphasis on what she gains from the relationship itself in your decision making rather than the idea that any relationship with her biological father must be preserved at any cost to her.

Stop letting him control you both.

Vinosaurus · 04/07/2019 21:44

sevenof12 you are pretty bloody wise. I read your post about an hour ago and haven't stopped crying since.

I think I've done my daughter a disservice - but when she is the one telling you not to be mean about her daddy, and that he's trying his best, it is really hard no to want to try to try everything you can to try to facilitate a positive and productive relationship between them.

But everyone who has responded to my OP - even the somewhat harsh ones - have kinda made me turn a corner and see things from a more objective perspective. I never thought of how he had manipulated me (too focused on DD), and how that was affecting my decision making. You're right - I was so desperate for her to know her dad that I don't think I recognised the negative impact that was having. I need to be the strong one - I need to essentially be the bitch - but in doing so I am protecting her.

Thankyou.

OP posts: